1875/type 19 kyu gunto- real or fake?

[lonely panet]

6 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The chrome on the Kyu Gunto saya is prone to deteriorating, any minor damage can cause rust to quickly form under the chrome and spread along the saya. This rust can happen at any time and is not a reliable indicator of wear or authenticity. 

how much does it cost to rechrome a car bumber??

 

bout 10k here in SA,  so would a faker go to exent of using such a expensive process to make only a few dollers.  i think is a very very good indicator. if you can tell the difference between chrome and polished tin.  like modern fakes are done in.

 

here is a quick example of just army kyu dress swords in quality and finish,  some have metal cores, some bakerlite "early plastic" and some are horn

[Bridges]

Good point John. I’m just having issues with the grip and cherry blossom.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Re-chroming can't cost that much in Japan, see quite a few Kyu Gunto on Yahoo.jp auctions that have been re-gilded and re-chromed recently.

[lonely panet]

is it really chrome???

 from what i see its thick and ugly,  stands out a mile away

[PNSSHOGUN]

It may say chrome on the spray paint can.......

[Kiipu]

The sword in post #18 is a Chinese Nationalist era sword and the other one in post #23 has a plum blossom and not a cherry blossom.  All this information can be found in the reference books that should be read & consulted.

[Bridges]

Thanks for the concurrence Kiipu, I pulled my info from Dawson’s swords of imperial Japan!

[lonely panet]

post 18 ia a modern fake full stop, if you cant see that out stop collecting or commenting.  post 23 is a company grade type 19 with poor ingraving. IT CLEARLY has 2 overlapping sukura. 

 

what information in what books,  with that pictures do you refur too?? becauase many of those"books" i have own swords published in them.

 

this is why i stopped trying to help peaple here,  to much crap being dribbled and not enough brain power.  plum blossom has a near perfect circular petal,  sukura have a elingated petal. that is a very helpfull him for in the case of excessive wear.  SHAPE,  SHAPE F......KING SHAPE

 

use your eyes peaple, or heavan forbid the thing that stops your ears from touching.

 

your on your own now.  not wasting my time anymore 

[Kiipu]

Thanks Hamish, I stand corrected.  My father always said I was hopeless but not helpless.

[Bruce Pennington]

15 hours ago, lonely panet said:

2 overlapping sukura. 

I see them, and I think I've found the mon, but don't know what it means.  So, I'm still flummoxed (ha! has that been posted in the Word of the Day, yet?) that the petals are rounded, yes elongated, and don't have the indentations at the end, even on the mon.  Artistic license, I suppose.

 

If you don't know the meaning, I'll post on the Mon thread.

[Bugyotsuji]

There is a famous kind of Sakura called the Ya-é which means eight-petalled, eight-fold, or many-petalled. Cherry blossom petals have indentations in the ends, in typical motif portrayals.

 

Yours is described as Ya-é umé, which means eight-petal variety of Japanese apricot (often translated as ‘plum’), which have rounded petals.

[Kiipu]

Noah, below is a link to a hybrid Japanese/Chinese sword.  See picture number 4.  Note the sakura with engraved Chinese flags above.  Thought you would enjoy seeing something like this.

is this a chinese sword (now with blade pictures), Post #46

[Bridges]

Thanks Kiipu, I’m going to save those pics for reference. They almost remind me of Manchuria types!

[lonely panet]

5 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Noah, below is a link to a hybrid Japanese/Chinese sword.  See picture number 4.  Note the sakura with engraved Chinese flags above.  Thought you would enjoy seeing something like this.

is this a chinese sword (now with blade pictures), Post #46

the bottom 2 look very good, they have all the fit and finish of a Japanese made military sword for occupation forces, or evan taken them modified, but the most likey option in my opinion is due the time frame of the Beiyang Army,  was made on order. as Japan exited the LON in what the early 30's.  its not really my interest as its outside of Japan.

 

  but the top 2 concern me to a point where i wouldnt clasify them as kyu gunto.

 

the middle was is interesting but still has some concerns.

 

 

[John C]

Noah:

Not sure if you have seen these, however there are some good detailed shots of handle and guard removed from the sword for future reference. I have included two shots below. Not sure if they come from the stuff you collect.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165777930195?hash=item26992277d3:g:E5MAAOSw6DdjclS9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134327729661?hash=item1f468e7dfd:g:Gr4AAOSwSe5jclTq

 

John C.

[Bridges]

Thanks John! They sure do. I collect mainly type 19s, police types and kyu-guntos. Im not sure if you saw my other post on the fake type 19 with the habaki, but the engraving closely match these originals so much so it’s scary.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 12/20/2022 at 4:05 PM, Bridges said:

Does anyone have examples of fake Japanese parade swords? There are 0 examples of faked type 19s on the internet. With the low sale price of type 19s, I doubt there are as many fakes on the market as other types but I would be interested in seeing a fake to help sharpen my senses.

Poor Paul, @pjay101, has 2.  Posted HERE.

 

After filing his example, I re-discovered I have another Type 19 fake on file, from the same faker:

 

[Bridges]

Thanks @Bruce Pennington, what a crude copy. I expected more from these counterfeiters!

[DTM72]

Here is another one for ya @Bridges . I thought this was a field officer grade kyu...at first look. The backstrap detail is off and the kamon does not look right either. eBay find.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394425182118?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1eZRbcikyTDKPD_ngTOTLXA45&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=394425182118&targetid=1587262742577&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=1025628&poi=&campaignid=15275224983&mkgroupid=131097072938&rlsatarget=pla-1587262742577&abcId=9300697&merchantid=656289094&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4HwqsTZ_QIV9xXUAR1CfQ8mEAQYAyABEgJHyvD_BwE

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Tassel cord looks like it came off of somebody's curtains!

[DTM72]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Tassel cord looks like it came off of somebody's curtains!

 

Yeah, but it is from a field officers curtains!

[Bridges]

@DTM72Good eye Dan, the details look like molded playdoh and where the nut is peened appears recessed? What a suspiciously odd find!

[Bruce Pennington]

Another fake, thanks @Kiipu, HERE

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A pretty good fake, found by TheGreenMan on this Gunboards Thread.  

[Bruce Pennington]

For lack of a better place to put this, I just read on page 221 of the Plimpton book that army officers were issued their dress swords, but navy officers were not.

[ThatBoiKrissy]

Hello, I have two seemingly Type-19 Japanese Sabers, one with ray skin and the other is unknown. Are they supposed to have proof marks on them, because I can't find any without possibly damaging the sabers themselves. 

 

Please get back to me via: 407-255-3211

 

I don't always check the forum for updates. 

 

Thank you!

 

PS: For the nicer dress saber, ignore the rope. I don't have an authentic wrap for it.