What to do with my buget

[brillone]

I would just like to hear your thauts on how i shold do with my budget.

I know poeple in here spend a very big amount o cash on there swords and i wish i could do the same.

But i dont make a lot of cash in my job and i have to pay the rent, shure i could save to one of the expensive swords but that would take me a real loooooooong time we are talking years.

My budget right now is maximum 800 dollars next month i will have a little more to that budget so its about 1000 dollars.

And this is right now when the us dollar is very low.

 

I know that people will probably just say save up money and buy when u can afford a expensive sword, but what if the dollar goes up again. And remember it would take me years.

 

I have been talking to Larry that Stephen gave me a tip about.

And he has sent me pictures of 2 wakizashis one for 500 us dollars and the other for 610 us dollars. And from what people here are saying this is a guy i can trust. Both the wakizashis have a good price but they aint in the best condition still verry good tho. none of them are signed wich i think is a bit sad cause if a buy a sword i want to look up who made it and so on.

 

So im really unshure of what to do should i wait till my nest paycheck and sit on ebay and bid, i meen there are swords there who sells for under 1000 dollars with nbthk and nthk papers. They are in better shape and so on. But theres always the fraud risk on ebay.

 

Or should i go for larrys swords who are really good price. And im also thinking about waiting cause i want a katana, so actually a wakizashi may not be what im looking for. I want the katana more casue it was the more iimportant sword to the samurai, or thats how i understand it. Im still new to all the facts and info so please enlighten me if im wrong.

 

Well this are just some of my toghts i hope you can give me some tip.

 

And dont diss my budget to much, remember not everyone is rich.

[Grey Doffin]

Joakim,

$1,000 isn't enough to buy you something you can love. Save the money and add to it when you can. In the mean time, read and study; find other collectors who will let you visit and look.

$2,000 and knowledge can buy a good, lovable wakizashi, and $3,000 with knowledge will do the same for a katana.

It is possible to do this with less money, but it requires more knowledge.

Grey

[brillone]

Yeah i know taht this is the opinone of probably everyone here, but i will probably never get that kind of money to buy a sword so thats how it is.

 

And still shure a nice sword gets very much love but i dont need the most beautiful sword i just want a real katana. I want a sword that i can give love its not all about the looks to me. Sure i dont want an ugly sword but i want a sword with some history. So please understand me sould give up and never concider buying a sword just casue i dont got much money?! That to me is not an option i rather have a sword thats a bit damaged than no sword cause its still a piece of art. Rember how old it is and it has seen some bad years still i can give som nice care as long as i have it. To me its more important with the history of the sword than the looks.

[Brian]

Joakim,

There are a number of points to remember.

Firstly, there are a lot of sellers "that can be trusted' however when you buy a $600 item from a trusted seller, it doesn't mean you get a $1500 item, it just means you get the item and maybe have a pleasant transaction. However a $600 item is still a $600 item, and that doesn't get you too much nowdays.

I would say if you are spendng under $1500, then you have to go for a wakizashi. value for money, it will buy you a nice waki, or a bad katana. And a bad starter sword will get you no-where.

I have yet to see any papered swords under $1000 like you mentioned. Final prices differ considerably from listed prices.

A blade that needs a lot of work is going to get you no-where. Costs of restoration are high, and you learn nothing from a cheap beater blade.

Signatures at that price level usually don't mean much. Rather make sure you can see a nice hamon, some hada and the blade is not polished to the point that it is tired. Don't worry about mounts. A shirasaya will allow you to appreciate the blade.

 

Remember we get a lot of people here that want a "samurai sword" for the sake of owning one, and their budget is usually around $600-750 or so. But there is no easy answer. No dealer is giving away very good swords for that price.

You aren't going to learn much from it, but you will satisfy that craving.

Basically you need to spend as much as you can. If you will have $1000 in a few weeks, then wait. If you can go higher, then do. Stick with a wakizashi, and you can find something. In katana....well unless you want WW2, I don't think you will find much.

 

Don't rush. I know you are going to get lots of advice to wait, and comments that cheap swords aren't collectible. eBay isn't the way to go unless you are very good at it, and prepared to risk all your cash. No easy answers I'm afraid.

 

Brian

[DirkO]

Hmmm, maybe you could consider buying a "flawed" blade, with ware, kitae kizu, hagire,... For most of us, this is a real drawback, especially when we're talking about fatal flaws, but it just might be what you're looking for. You would still be able to appreciate and study the hamon, hada, ... but at a much lower cost. Just my idea ...

[Brian]

I've been watching this one for a long time now. It doesn't do much for me, but I think for a Fujishiro papered blade, it should be a good deal for some novice who just wants a sword mainly. It has some flaws, but should fit the bill?

Take a look, see if it will fill the craving?

http://cgi.ebay.com/16th-Century-Japane ... 0246663721

 

Brian

[DirkO]

Take a look, see if it will fill the craving?

 

Brian

 

Brian, once the craving starts, it never gets filled You should know that ! :D

[brillone]

Dear Brian

 

Ofc i know that if i buy a 600 dollar sword i get a sword equal to that amount. The most important thing is that it is real.

And as you said i think i will go for a wakizashi instead.

 

About papered swords i saw one on ebay yesterday that went for around 830 us dollars sold by kanetoyo here on the forum. At least that was the ending price on the action, and i was really really close to bid on that ut my internet crashed due to a storm outside so i guess that sword and me wasnt ment to be hehe.

 

And as you said mybe its better to look for a nice hamon and so on. The mounts i dont care about casue its the blade i want.

 

And i will probably wait until i have 1000 dollars to spend but i still will bid if i see something nice by a good dealer. And i will probably stick to the waki.

 

Its now been seven months since i started looking at nihonto swords, its just to bad i havent had the time to read so much about them under this period.

 

I will check the sword u posted it looks like something for me, anyone who have delat with this seller?

 

Zanshin just as you said a flawed blade is no problem for me so if you know any tell me :D

 

Thanks so much for your answer i know how frustrating it is with noobs haha so bare with me people.

[brillone]

Stephen

 

Thank your for that tip i will have to mail him about that right away now hehe. But still it can be to much to pay for me but its defenently a way to go.

 

But also as i said earlier a blade with some flaws is still very interesting to me.

 

Brian

 

What kind of identification papers are it on teh waki you linked i dont recognize them.

 

And guys you dont understand how much i appreciate your help

[Brian]

They are personal origami from Fujishiro Matsuo, which are still rated fairly well nowdays.

See here: http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/origami.htm

 

Brian

[brillone]

Thank you for the info brian.

[James]

I'm just about to put on eBay a wakizashi with a stunning hamon and really nice mounts inc. kozuka, but has a hagire. Signed by Masakuni. Maybe something you'll be interested in bidding on...

[brillone]

James that sounds really interesting, do you know wich day you will put it up on ebay?

[omorik]

Here's my advice, newbie to newbie.

 

Figure out why you are buying the sword.

 

Don't get wrapped up in the signature. I've read 90% are fake anyway. Whatever your reason to buy a sword is, I'm guessing it isn't to be bamboozled with a gimei. I think it can be interesting to have a fake signature and think about why people fake things even in an honor obsessed culture. Then again sometimes people like having the fake Vuitton bag. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

Some of the reason's can be:

 

Financial- When the world goes katana-crazy you will be positioned to make a few thousand dollars off your $1000 investment. There is a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. The title says it all. Originally published in 1852 and documents human nature including tulipomania. Downside is that you will have to part with that sword that you love. The consensus seems to be that in order to make money you have to spend money. Rare desireable swords are more likely to increase in value.

 

Practical- Good to have a nice sword when the zombies rise from the dead. It may be better to have a modern sword or even a machete because they are cheaper and there is no such thing as zombies (though I could be wrong). Some people want a sword with history for martial arts. Iaido for example which doesn't involve contact. I don't think that metal fatigue is an issue but for actual cutting it seems a travesty to use a work of art/history to slice up bamboo mats. There are new swords that are better suited for slicing and cutting. For actual fighting, I have read that some feel that bokken (wooden swords) are superior to metal blades and only cost about $15.

 

Philosophical- If the sword is the spirit of the samurai. It represents dedication, honor, purity, sharpness, etc. When our current times are exemplified by what we see on magazine covers at the grocery checkout, it is understandable that we desire something simpler and symbolic of the better qualities of human nature. I have come to worship at the altar of resilience. It is interesting that Hamon style changed because it was theorized that having an irregular hamon could more effectively arrest a crack travelling through a blade. I think choji looks nice too. Composition of the sword is also intriguing. Hard where it needs to be hard and soft where it needs to be soft. It might be a consideration to choose a style of forging, shape of blade and type of hamon as a criteria besides price. If it takes some time to figure out what blade you want, so much the better. You'll have more money to spend.

 

Supernatural- There is the idea that we don't own the sword, as much as act as custodians to pass the sword down to future generations. The spirits of the past enter into the sword and strengthen each subsequent guardian. We are buying spiritual strength and character.

 

I think it is important to understand why you are buying the sword. My best friend told me to "figure out what you like, then spend the money. You'll never regret it." (Although I personally set a limit that won't cripple me financially.) I have found that advice to be good. When I look at what I really value I tend not to wish I paid less for that treasure. I am either happy with it, or wish I hadn't bought that crappy thing in the first place. It's not the money, it's the object.

 

I have two long swords. I bought one from Kanetoyo and the other from Komonjo/Historian333. They offer a lot of swords and I waited for the swords I wanted and bought them. I bought blades in decent condition because it can cost as much to properly polish a sword as it costs to buy a sword. I was nervous because of how much the swords cost but the Sellers were reliable. One was $1700 and the other a little over $3000. Much more that I planned to spend but I am now ready for zombies. (I think I actually like the $1700 katana a little more than the $3000 papered Tachi. But I wouldn't want to part with either.)

 

The ironic thing about this message board and others like it is that I think they would tend to foster interest in Nihonto and contribute to increasing the price so we can't afford them. So in order to bring balance to the Force, I would suggest that swords are horrible, nasty things and should be sold as quickly and cheaply as possible. Tsuba as well.

 

Best of luck in your search. Enjoy it.

 

G Tu

[brillone]

Omorik

 

Really good points.

 

And i have thaught about why i want to buy a sword and its beacause i want a part of history i want one of the greatest things ever created by man. And also i want to kill som zombies with it ofc.

 

Thanks for your tips :D

[Stephen]

this thread is about to go to the twilight zone. Its about swords not fanasty. enough with the zombies

[James]

Here's the link to the wakizashi with hagire I mentioned earlier:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0270847358

[brillone]

James

 

That sword was really nice but it seems it will be to expensive for me, good luck with the sell.

[brillone]

I think i will give private bids on theese 2 bad or good idea?

I will offer about 900 dollars to buy one of them now.

He will probably say no but still is it worth a try?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-047-Muromachi-Kat ... dZViewItem

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-049-Muromachi-Kat ... dZViewItem

[Brian]

I don't think it is ethical to try and end an auction once there are bids. Not fair to the other bidders.

He won't accept anyways, these are going to go above $1200, probably over $1.5K with the papers.

Seems you are doing what a lot of beginners do..you have decided, and now want to rush and get something fast. My advice is don't. Take your time, wait until you have maybe $1200 or so, and don't advertise too much what you are bidding on, or any good deals will just get more publicity and more bids.

Check what items you are willing to buy, place a snipe bid of your max, and keep doing that until you win one. Then you can breathe again :lol:

eBay isn't the place to get your first sword, but I think at your price level you can't lose too much. Always get a guarantee of no fatal flaws.

 

Brian

[brillone]

Ok thanks for the tip

[rkg]

Joakim,

 

You could try to get the seller to stop the auctions, but I'd guess they wouldn't do it for the price you mentioned, as

Brian observed.

 

In General, Eprey isn't the best place for a beginning collector to look for swords - often the pictures are lousy, the

descriptions are incomplete or misleading, and its an "auction" environment where you can get sucked into paying

more than you should for something (a prior poster's observation about setting your max bid is spot on - when I

was doing a lot of listings, I'd always look at the bid history and stop listing additional items of a certain type if

there were too few bidders - usually we'd do real well when we got at least a couple of people who really wanted

a particular item :-) ).

 

Along with everybody else, I'd recommend that you might want to sit pat and save your pennies er, uh, Euros until

you've accumulated enough to get something reasonable - unless you get lucky sniping or fall into a deal, you should

plan on spending at least USD1500-2000 for an servicable in-polish wakizashi (even with a koshirae), more for a katana

(though you can sometimes pick up a mostly in-polish traditionally made WWII era piece by a no-name smith,

maybe even with a (mostly) complete koshirae, for that price or sometimes less if the blade has issues that make

it a "gamble"). I'd recommend avoiding pieces that need a polish when you're starting out though- most of the

time anything on the "open market" is out of polish because somebody else (who probably knows a lot more than

you) decided it wasn't worth the risk/wouldn't cost more than they could sell the finished piece for.

 

Also remember to factor in shipping and possibly import duties (A/R).

 

Things are tough right now, so always making an offer is probably a good idea - you'll find

experienced sellers will probably deal more on pieces that have issues (non-fatal flaws, shinto and later era

pieces that have been shortened and/or have had the machi moved up, unsigned pieces or pieces by

no-name makers, pieces that aren't "typical" (short wakizashi or katana, etc.), pieces with marginal polish, etc.,.

 

Good Luck,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[brillone]

rkg

 

Thanks for your answer

 

About the import i have checked it with the customs here and its 12% of the price i bought if for.

And aobout saving up money as i have said earlier i dont havve much of an income so for me to save up is a big economic deal. But i will not go over 1500 for a sword and thats extremly high for me.

 

And about ebay the thing is its in my reach, i have contacted a dealer here in sweden wich stopped answering my emails. Tho i just asked if i can see pictures of some tsubas i was interested in. I have mailed him again now about a sword so i hope he will answer it.

I have seen some nice swords on other sites also but as Brian said i wont link them here.

[Rickisan]

brillone -

Not so recently...I was walking in your shoes. The same desire for an authentic peice of history.

 

I asked advice on the board, bought many books and surfed many reputed sites all the time.

 

At first the prices posted on the big sites led me to believe I would never own a sword on a beginner budget, but after a few emails... I found some sites may have items not shown. Either new and not posted yet...or not important enough to list...yet.

 

My first purchase was listed at $3500 on a "big reputable site"...but they let me have it for $2000. I was allowed to make very low payments for a few months to make it happen. (Keep in mind it was a wakizashi, but from a very reputable seller) I think I got lucky...most people had good things to say on the board.

 

I really believe that everyone is hurting for cash(including sellers)...and making an decent offer will always be considered. I found that sometimes the big sites are flexible. Have to get money to pay for gas somewhere....

 

Dont give up yet....but I would save a bit more, so you can make a better offer.

 

Just my 2 cents :D

 

Rick