"Mukden"?

[Bruce Pennington]

Came across this thread from 2016, on NMB (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic...-quality-help/) with a stamp on the blade resembling the Mukden stamp found on firearms and bayonets, but it's not what I'm used to seeing.

 

Anyone see this as a Mukden stamp, or is it something else?

 

 

 

This is what the Mukden stamp looks like on firearms

[Bruce Pennington]

Dawson, Fuller, and Ohmura all refer to the "Mukden" or "Nan-man" arsenal. Located 10 miles north of the city, they also call it the South Manchurian Arsenal (not to be confused with the South Manchurian Railway Factory). Dawson says they made swords, but didn't know of what nature. Fuller says they used the "Nan" stamp. Ohmura associates both the Nan and Ren stamps with them, and believes they were involved with Mantetsu blades. None of them refer to the circled Mukden stamp seen on firearms and baynets, although Fuller shows the stamp in his chart, saying not all the stamps in the chart are seen on blades.

 

This COULD be a post-war Bubba-job, as proposed by someone on Warrelics. It's dated and signed ('44 Kanesada), with no stamps on the nakago, so I can't imagine WHY a Bubba would create his own stamp and put it on the blade; although the Bubba's of the world have done some inconceivable things!

[zook]

I recall seeing this on bayonets (only)....  dan  

[Bazza]

Bruce,

 

In the first photo I love the finger-print looking jigane...

 

BaZZa.

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce,

 

In the first photo I love the finger-print looking jigane...

 

BaZZa.

Yeah, I think that's called "Bubba-ayasugi"!

[Kiipu]

A slightly different stamp but since it is so similar in appearance I will post it here.  It is the stamp closest to the habaki.

The second stamp, the one closest to the blade tip, is an encircled 應.  The stamp is struck at an angle and thus partially obscured.  The outer circle is faint but it can be seen.

WOII Katana. Help discovering if Authentic and what type

See picture 2 in post #24 by Stegel.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

A slightly different stamp but since it is so similar in appearance I will post it here.  It is the stamp closest to the habaki.

The second stamp, the one closest to the blade tip, is an encircled 應.  The stamp is struck at an angle and thus partially obscured.  The outer circle is faint but it can be seen.

WOII Katana. Help discovering if Authentic and what type

See picture 2 in post #24 by Stegel.

BINGO!  Now we have 2 of them, and this one is on an "Emergency" blade, which validates it.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stegel shared these other variations of the Mukden stamp on THIS WARRELICS POST.

 

So, these stamps aren't the same, but it makes a point that they did have a small variety of stamps they went through.  I'm reminded of the Toyokawa anchor that is in a circle on sword blades but in a sakura on dirks and other fittings.  Maybe Mukden used a differing look on sword blades than they did on guns.

[dwmc]

Sounds logical Bruce, just another variant of the Mukden stamp!

 

Dave M.

[BANGBANGSAN]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Stegel shared these other variations of the Mukden stamp on THIS WARRELICS POST.

 

So, these stamps aren't the same, but it makes a point that they did have a small variety of stamps they went through.  I'm reminded of the Toyokawa anchor that is in a circle on sword blades but in a sakura on dirks and other fittings.  Maybe Mukden used a differing look on sword blades than they did on guns.

 

 

Bruce

The mark on that rifle is not Mukden arsenal ,but from Northeast China Arsenal.Here is the 3 Arsenal mark from China.

1.東三省兵工廠  Northeast China Arsenal

2.奉天造兵所 Mukden (  Hōten) Arsenal 

3.兵工署第九十工廠 Ordnance Department No.90 Arsenal

More info of the Mukden ----The Shenyang Dawn Arsenal, formerly known as the Mukden Arsenal or Hōten Arsenal in Japanese (奉天工廠 Hōten Kōshō), was an arms arsenal based in Shenyang, China that produced arms from 1897 to around 1969. Originally a small arms factory located in the area, the company was slowly expanded until it became a wide network of factories during the World Wars 。Link of the Mukden Arsenal

https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Shenyang_Dawn_Arsenal

[Stegel]

49 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

 

The mark on that rifle is not Mukden arsenal ,but from Northeast China Arsenal.Here is the 3 Arsenal mark from China.

1.東三省兵工廠  Northeast China Arsenal

2.奉天造兵所 Mukden (  Hōten) Arsenal 

3.兵工署第九十工廠 Ordnance Department No.90 Arsenal

 

Hi BangBangSan,

Check this link:

Mukden

It gives the complete history, is it incorrect?? as it states the symbol on the rifle was Proofmark of Mukden Arsenal between 1918-1931

[BANGBANGSAN]

46 minutes ago, Stegel said:

Hi BangBangSan,

Check this link:

Mukden

It gives the complete history, is it incorrect?? as it states the symbol on the rifle was Proofmark of Mukden Arsenal between 1918-1931

Ernie

You're right ,that mark was used from 1918-1931, but at the time it's called 東三省兵工廠 Northeast China Arsenal owned by Chinese warlord Zhang Zuo Lin.1931 Northeast China Arsenal has captured by the Japanese First Change the name to 関東軍野戰兵器廠 Kwantung Army Field weapon factory and the later change the name to 奉天造兵所 Mukden (  Hōten) Arsenal 。 That mark was officially used by Northeast China Arsenal ,not used when the arsenal called Mukden (  Hōten) Arsenal, that is my understanding.

Please look at the bottom of the  photo I post, it says 東三省兵工廠制 Northeast China Arsenal made(That poster about the trade mark).

[Bruce Pennington]

So, it sounds like the same manufacturing operation, changing names as it changes hands?

 

In any case, my pursuit of the OP stamp is still unresolved.  As of now, I like my comparison of the Toyokawa stamp being different on blades than it is on fittings.