Some Top Items Changing Hands

[Jussi Ekholm]

Well I was doing some research at Cultural Heritage Database and Agency for Cultural Affairs websites. Then I stumbled what I suppose are yearly realized purchases by the Agency for Cultural Affairs. As they are a government body they might be required to list the info out in the open for all to see? There was data for 10 years Heisei 20 to Heisei 29. I hope I am understanding it right, if not please correct me.

 

You can find the information behind this link: http://www.bunka.go.jp/seisaku/bunkazai/kokuyuzaisan/bunkazai/

there are PDF files for each year below the listing that feature some info about the items & bad quality picture.

 

2009

Jūyō Bunkazai - Kagemitsu Tachi (dated 1322) - 70M Yen - This sword passed Tokubetsu Jūyō in session 2 (1973) and I believe this was appointed as Bunkazai in 1979.

Jūyō Bijutsuhin - Ko-Bizen Tomonari Tachi - 30M Yen

 

2010

Jūyō Bunkazai - Tegai Kanenaga Tachi - 57M Yen

Jūyō Bunkazai - Hoki Yasutsuna Tachi - 74M Yen

 

2013

Jūyō Bunkazai - Aoe Moritsugu Tachi & Koshirae - 56M Yen - This sword was by the information from Nihontō Kōza in Uesugi family and had the name Hannya no Tachi.

 

2014

Jūyō Bunkazai - Norishige Tachi - 66M Yen

 

2015

Jūyō Bunkazai - Hankei Katana - 53M Yen

 

2016

Jūyō Bunkazai - Masatsune Tachi - 81M Yen

Jūyō Bunkazai - Kanro Toshinaga Ken (dated 1360) - 32M Yen

Jūyō Bunkazai - Nanki Shigekuni Katana - 67M Yen

Jūyō Bunkazai - Awataguchi Yoshimitsu Tanto - 83M Yen - Meito Hakata Tōshirō

 

2017

Jūyō Bunkazai - Moriie Tachi (dated 1279) - 68M Yen

Jūyō Bunkazai - Motoshige Wakizashi - 40M Yen

[Prewar70]

A $400k usd Motoshige Wakizashi?  Am I reading the correctly?

[Gakusee]

I get a 404 on the link?

[Jussi Ekholm]

Yes I believe so about the price. But I do think this might be regarded as the best work by Motoshige. I know that several of his swords have reached Bunkazai & Bijutsuhin status but this particular sword is often featured on top class publications. For example this sword has been featured in both Shōwa Daimeito Zufu and Meihin Katanaezu Shusei.

 

You can see the sword at the bottom of this page: http://www.sho-shin.com/motoshig.htm

 

I tried to fix the link in the opening post, seems like there was a spacebar at the end of link which made it 404.

[Gakusee]

Works! Great find!

[Wim V]

Very nice info indeed.  The Motoshige wakizashi is a heirloom of the Shimazu family and is referenced in at least 10 important books/publications.  It is regarded as his best example where the Soshu influence can be clearly seen.  If you take a look at this blade it's quite evident why Motoshige is regarded as one of the Sadamune santetsu.  So I'm not really surprised about the price.

[Tom Darling]

Great find!  Appreciate it very much.

 

 

 

Tom D.

[Hoshi]

Very interesting data, thank you Jussi

[Gakusee]

Well, the sums are mouthwatering. What perplexes me is how “cheap” a rarity such as Tomonari is compared to the other names. With around 25 in existence, Tomonari is much rarer than Masamune and the names above and yet is highly precious. Of course, many of the above come with provenance and that counts but still....

[Tom Darling]

That's simple, name recognition, reputation, just simply being known. I would choose Kiyomaro, or Kotetsu a hundred times above all others. They were the best of the rest. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[Gakusee]

That's simple, name recognition, reputation, just simply being known. I would choose Kiyomaro, or Kotetsu a hundred times above all others. They were the best of the rest. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

 

Hahahahaha, the best joke I have heard in a long while....

[Ray Singer]

As far as the discrepancy between Tomonari and others, I would note that the Tomonari is only ranked as a Juyo Bijutsuhin. Juyo Bijutsuhin is a deprecated ranking and is not equivalent to Juyo Bunkazai. Some Jubi would even have a challenge passing Juyo today. I do not know which of the Tomonari Jubi this was, however there is at least one which is only osuriage mumei, compared with the Tomonari Juyo Bunkazai which I believe are all signed examples (and would be expected to command a higher purchase price).

[Gakusee]

Ray, I of course agree with some of your reasoning and thought of the same obvious explanation. Now, of course, there is a strong weakness in the ladder theory argument (“only JuBi” = so not worth as much as JuBu, which is almost similar to “only Hozon = should be cheaper than Juyo” types of argument). The fallacy, as we know, is that often that argument ignores maker and provenance and so on. However, along your train of thought, I also am aware that experts in Japan say that, conservatively speaking, probably 20-40 per cent of JuBi are overinflated.

 

So, it might be that you are hypothetically right that it is a “discredited” or “doubtful” Tomonari, but then why pay even 10m yen, let alone 30m? A high-end dealer in Tokyo recently had a “Tomonari” with a Tomonari nakago shumei, which on the sayagaki Kanzan sensei had already downgraded to “Tomonari den” and then the NBTHK had further discounted in the Juyo setsumei (mentioning that while high-quality KoBizen, it could not be attributed to a specific smith - therefore, not enough evidence to give it a Tomonari approbation). But that blade was a high single digit million yen and not in the tens like here. So, I am not sure that a high end buyer would not have done enough work to figure out what he was buying. Possible, though.....

 

 

The Tomonari is illustrated in the webpage that Jussi pointed out. For completeness, I attach that page from the Bunka publication. As it happens, it is on the same page as the Kagemitsu.

 

Now, there are certain names, which are more scholarly and require more in-depth Nihonto study/understanding to appreciate them (Sanjo/Gojo, the old KoBizen masters, KoHoki Yasutsuna) while some flashier, more famous names sometimes enjoy a lot of popularity or noise due to other factors (I think Muramasa and Kiyomaro are in the latter group - publicity driven, hype delineated price).

 

Overall, however, I disagree that the names in Jussi’s list above are inferior to Kiyomaro, etc - in fact, I am of the opposite view.

[Hoshi]

The eternal return to the Ko-Bizen, where the Nihonto journey ends, the last step before enlightenment...

 

These swords must be the close to the top surviving creations of their makers, with the exception of the Tomonari which is priced at a lower level. We just don't have enough information to evaluate the pricing in context. The Masatsune Tachi, also Ko-bizen, fetched far higher price. The Yasutsuna, another venerable blade, fetched a similarly top price. The one to top them all was unsurprisingly a Yoshimitsu Tanto...   

 

Now imagine if this selection was presented to you for a Kantei session. 

[Gakusee]

Below is the Masatsune featured in this thread. That Masatsune has provenance (Arima daimyo family) and actually is a reasonably famous blade (there is an article dedicated to it in one of the NBTHK magazines in the front section with profiles of famous swords).

Both the Tomonari and the Masatsune are signed but the Tomonari is osuriage while the Masatsune seems ubu.

 

Anyway, getting sidetracked. All of them obviously remarkable blades.

[Vermithrax16]

The eternal return to the Ko-Bizen, where the Nihonto journey ends, the last step before enlightenment...

 

These swords must be the close to the top surviving creations of their makers, with the exception of the Tomonari which is priced at a lower level. We just don't have enough information to evaluate the pricing in context. The Masatsune Tachi, also Ko-bizen, fetched far higher price. The Yasutsuna, another venerable blade, fetched a similarly top price. The one to top them all was unsurprisingly a Yoshimitsu Tanto...   

 

Now imagine if this selection was presented to you for a Kantei session. 

So after enlightenment, what happens then?

[Tom Darling]

Inferior is a conclusion, not mine. Yukihira was the best kaji in the Bungo school. Kotetsu and Kiyomaro, you can rely on what you're seeing, as opposed to mumei blades, particularly Masamune, because there is always doubt. A proof tells us where to concentrate our doubts. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[Gakusee]

So after enlightenment, what happens then?

Hmmm, I do not believe we are enlightened yet )). Only the enlightened would know the answer, epistemologically speaking.

 

However, it is helpful on the path to enlightenment to recognise that guys like Kiyomaro copied (construe in broadest sense: were inspired by, emulated, reproduced etc) Chogi and Norishige who copied / learnt from Masamune who did so from KoBizen, KoHoki and Awataguchi. Of course, there were transformations, additions, etc along the learning curve of the subsequent generations and innovators but it is no surprise that the old masters are held in such reverence.

[Hoshi]

So after enlightenment, what happens then?

 

Kyomaro to Shizu and Chogi, Hankei to Norishige and Masamune...

Shizu and Chogi to Masamune... 

Masamune to Ko-Bizen and Norishige to Ko-Hoki...

The trail goes down to Amakuni... 

 

And who then came before?

 

Do you really want to know?

[Guido]

This thread has some of the best, and some of the most idiotic posts I read recently. NMB in a nutshell.

[Guest Rayhan]

Agreed Guido

[Tom Darling]

My guess would be Korean kaji.

Peace.

 

Tom D.

[SAS]

So after enlightenment, what happens then?

 

Chop wood, carry water......