Your Nihonto library

[Stephen]

question i posted in my sale page, maybe room for discussion here instead of sale thread.

 

"Soooo all members consider there no longer newbies? Fujishiro books  no longer needed in a sound Nihonto library? what books do you feel needed? Just all Markus's books?"

 

older members feel free to tell all who you think is needed. 

[paulb]

Stephen

I think the modern problem is one of space. Most people coming newly to the subject prefer to have references on their computer or phone than on paper. It takes up no space its more easily accessible and I absolutely hate it!!

Personally My library of reference work has reached bursting point but I still don't think you can beat leafing through a good reference book with a lot of oshigata. I continue to be tempted when something of interest appears. The problem is I sometimes forget what I already have and find I have duplicates!

 

BTW After 35 years+ I still consider myself a newby and doubt I will ever think anything else. 

[BIG]

Im still looking for the book:

 

EDO SAN SAKU NO KENKYU about three shin shinto smith, including Taikei Naotane.Think published in 1936, so please help me out!

 

Best

[Brian]

I think it is a combination of instant gratification and reliance on online resources. People don't want to have to go and find a book and do any work looking something up. They want to type a search query and be told the answer. And most newcommers are not heavily into this hobby. They are just distracted with it for a while, not enough to stick around and spend money on books. Look how many of our own members moved on to other pasttimes.
Scary that it is a small group of hardcore collectors and enthusiasts keeping it all together.
Books themselves are considered archaic. I wouldn't want to be invested in any form of paper printing as a vocation.

[16k]

Well, I see two problems here.

 

One is money. Most of the Japanese books are very expensive and the best ones are on the secondary market, sold out so prices sky rocket.

And the second is related to the first one. Getting a great Japanese book is fine for Oshigata and all, except, many like me don’t read Japanese and will hesitate to pay top money for a book they can’t even read. Especially, as you said, when there are great, affordable books in English.

 

Fujishiro is on my want/need list, but I hesitate getting a book I can’t really use.

[Shugyosha]

Hi JP,

 

There are English translations available for Fujishiro.

 

As regards Stephen's OP, what I need to do is learn and understand what I have in my library as I have too many books that I have only a passing acquaintance with as I tend to fall back on the Nihontoko Jiten, Toko Taikan or The connoisseurs book of Japanese Swordsmiths.

 

Anyhow, I'm hanging on to Fujishiro but have given serious thought to parting with my copy of Hawley's as Markus Sesko's work has made me doubt its accuracy. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

As I consider myself as a book collector I think I might be a wrong person to answer. I thought you have a good price on the Fujishiros

 

One major problem is the availability of the books. It is a rare occasion to find books that I am after in Europe. I think I've purchased about 50 books from mostly Japan & US within the last 12 months and the shipping costs are really high but there is no way around that as pretty much just sellers in Japan & Grey have the books I am after.

 

I treat some of the rare books bit like Jūyō items I suppose. It is a bit special occasion for me if I go to them. Then basic books I can just grab whenever I feel like it and search through them. However now that I think about it the more specific books I've gotten the less I've been using some great general reference works. I don't think I've popped my Connoisseurs open in few years, same for Facts & Fundamentals and I guess my Book version of Sesko Smith Index has been unopened for few years too, yet I use the e-book almost daily basis.

 

Now that I've gotten more and more books I've understood that my need for various Meikan has been reduced a lot. I have thousands of different swords in various books and I can fairly easily find what I am looking for. I still have the Meikan trio from Markus which are great books but my book collection has outgrown them. I think all collectors should have some from of reference books for mei, something like Fujishiro set, Meikan set by Markus etc.

[Stephen]

Good post guys..and Paul i agree im a novice at best. No names mentioned but we have a few new members who come off as well seasoned collectors. Probably time to give up on supplying new guys with the ol school way digging out the book cross reference page numbers to find oshigatas.

[16k]

Hi JP,

There are English translations available for Fujishiro.

 

 

I know there are John, but those are even more expensive. Now if all those weren’t out of print, it would be a no brained as the prices would be reasonable. That’s the problem of this hobby. It’s reserved to a rather wealthy élit. Books are expensive, swords are expensive, polishing is expensive... it’s not a third world hobby obviously...

 

 

I still have the Meikan trio from Markus which are great books

 

 

...and here is also another reason I think. I have Markus’s Meikan. And as you know, the only one he didn’t write himself is the Kotō one. I remember my disappointment when I got it. Yes, it’s a good book, but compare it with his Shinto Meikan. Also still six hundred years of sword making in a Rather thin and not that precise book compared to the gems that Markus wrote for a 200 period era. I’d heard of the Nihon Kotō Shi as a reference long before I was able to read it and I think it’s not aged that well. I’d rather have a new version by Markus himself. Most of those out of print books are often old, so not being able to read them, you can’t know whether they are dated or not, and since they aren’t anywhere online with the traduction (unless my Google-fu is bad), you often have no way to know if they are absolutely necessary or not.

 

 

Good post guys..and Paul i agree im a novice at best. No names mentioned but we have a few new members who come off as well seasoned collectors. Probably time to give up on supplying new guys with the ol school way digging out the book cross reference page numbers to find oshigatas.

When I saw you sale post, I was and am still strongly tempted to get the Fujishiro. The price is very reasonable compared to others I’ve seen. Sadly, I’ve spent more in swords since I’ve become a member here and I think it is time to save a little for a few months. If one of your offers pops up when my wallet isn’t crying mercy, you’ll have a buyer, just the wrong moment for me.

[Stephen]

JP they do come with translation. Just not in book form. Way things are going ill not be buying anymore except another shinto to make it three sets. So good chance ill have a set. Wasnt long ago they would sell @ $400 any day of the week...i Might lower one set just to recoup money out.

[raynor]

Many books on this subject are scarce and thus expensive. So far I only have Kokan Nagayama and Yumoto's handbook plus some nice 1970's Hawley magazines from a kind member on this forum. The price and rarity of some books make a lot of people prefer hunting pdf material I recon.

Remember Nagayama's book before the recent reprint? It went for hundreds of dollars and now you can get it for under fifty with some digging.

 

That said nothing beats having a good book with fold outs and great photos in hand to enjoy. Handling a physical medium like a book also makes you learn faster and more thorough then the admittedly more convenient digital material on small or big screens.

[Guest Rayhan]

I know the physical books are expensive but if you go to sites like mine you get access to some great digital books for the price of a single book, many of Mr Seskos' books are there, Darcy too etc, information is out there these days and will get better in coming years on internet platforms

[BIG]

My books..

[Stephen]

Yep Fujishiro

[Vermithrax16]

Love all my physical books, and appreciate all the electronic ones for easy searching. Always looking to add. Stephen, you supplied me with my set of Fujishiro, thank you!

[nagamaki - Franco]

Still find myself reaching for Yamanaka's Newsletters revised regularly. Truthfully, as or for an active collector (which I'm no longer) I'd recommend having all the books in addition to Markus' books.

 

P.S. one of a number of lessons learnt from Han Bing Siong (which I'm still grateful for), was when it comes to nihonto, especially translated literature written in English, you'd better check with at least 3 different sources. On more than one occasion I've found the same error in two different sources and it wasn't until checking a third source that the correct information came to light. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by nagamaki - Franco

[TETSUGENDO]

Physical books are a joy, and digital references are a great asset on the go.....Simply, the more reference material the better!

 

-S-

[Greg F]

As this is still very very early days in my Nihonto study I havnt got a huge collection of books or swords but out of the books that do fill my shelf I dont fully understand what im reading but im in it for the long haul so i will get there. Occasionally if I see a great deal on a book that I know will be handy when my knowledge is greater on the subject I grab it but funds are low so its not often. One thing for sure is I way rather a book than anything on a computer apart from NMB ofcourse. Being in a country that has few meetings and living in a town thats very lonely in terms of this hobby I like to get any book I can afford that has great pics of swords and tsuba and english explanations are a great bonus.

 

Greg

[Gunome]

I think that it depend also how we use the books.

As I don't read Japanese, I use french and English book or translation (like fujishiro/AFU) to find information on school or swordsmith, all the feature, the hada, hamon ...

I use my Japanese books (nihonto zuikan, Shinto/Shinshinto Taikan) for oshigata only : to confirm the mei and have a sample of the hamon.

So the use is different and for me, the first category is more for the study, the second one is more for research on a specific sword/swordsmith.

 

I really like physical book, but I must confess I face the same space issue as state above. I will proably decrease my Library of at least try to not increase it !

[Surfson]

I'm afraid to say that I am a book accumulator.  When I started I bought several collections, reasoning that there was value in the efforts of the previous owners to assemble them.  If I had to put my book collection on an average size motor boat, it would probably sink.....

 

I use several books frequently.  Fujishiro, Hawley, Nihonto meikan (less than Hawley I'm embarrassed to say), Grey's index, the main taikans (Koto, shinto, shinshinto), Nihonto Zuikan, Markus index, the Haynes index, Kinko Meikan, Slough's gendai book, Connoisseur's book, Facts and Fundamentals, Token Bijutsu english versions (I bound all of mine for ease of use), Wakayama, Toko Taikan (rarely), Markus' kantei series, Markus encyclopedia (great book!), and lots of sword porn picture books.  The more esoteric and expensive books are used much less frequently but great to have, such as the major taikans (Bizen, Hizen, Soshu, Mino etc. etc).  I also bought the Nihonto Taikan, which by itself can cost up to $5K, and I would not buy again if I had the opportunity, since I don't use it enough to warrant it.  Specialty taikans have been purchased out of interest, such as Sukehiro, Kiyomaro, Nara San Saku, Kurihara Nobuhide etc....  Finally, I have lots of little books that I rarely use on specialty topics, such as yari, kokatana, gimei, horimono etc.   

 

This is off the top of my head and just scratches the surface.  When I decide to stop collecting, Grey is going to have a field day!  

[Surfson]

It just occurred to me that owning all of these books I should know a lot more about swords.  I guess it goes to show that buying them is not the same as understanding them...

[paulb]

I go along with that. If size of library equated to understanding Iwould be issuing my own papers!!

 None the less I really love my books and yes they take a lot of room and no I don't use them as much as I should but when I need them they are there and full of helpful information.

[16k]

It just occurred to me that owning all of these books I should know a lot more about swords.  I guess it goes to show that buying them is not the same as understanding them...

See, that’s the problem! I’ve been awfully tempted to get the Fujishiro by Stephen, even if clearly, it’s financially a bed month for me. So I’ve printed the PDF version available here just to see if I really should own them. And truly, I’m not sure what I’d do with them. Sure, they come with the translation but since I don’t even have any idea what this translation includes or what it does look like, I don’t know if I could use these books full potential. Looking just at the Japanese version, I know they’re almost useless to me as they are.

[Brian]

Here's an example of a page from the Fujishiro electronic translations.
The Japanese books have the nakago pics, and the translations give the info on them.
 

 

[16k]

Is there a way to get this translation only? If I see that it is useful to me, at some point I want to get the hard copy as I love solid books more than virtual ones.

[Brian]

Translation is fairly useless without the images.

[Gakusee]

16k, Fujishiro’s is a very useful text, hands down. If you are unsure, buy it. The fact that you do not know about it in detail, and are wondering, in itself is an indicator that you have not passed the stage where you will not need it and would instead use more advanced texts.

 

The references in my Nihonto library (hard copy and electronic) have cost several people (as friends gifted me many volumes and pricey books) a 5-digit $ number. I am grateful for the presents and I have personally spent thousands on books. And I keep adding to that library as one can never stop learning. It is absolutely worth it and in fact it has helped me uncover quite a few good blades or appreciate what is in front of me more fully.

I only wish I was better at languages but at least we thankfully have Markus.

[Gunome]

Hello JP,

 

So I’ve printed the PDF version available here just to see if I really should own them.

Becareful, even if I mistaken, this is the "Shinto Shu" that is available for download by Fujishiro and not the Nihon Toko Jiten also by Fujishiro.

Here we spoke about the second one.

 

Also just to add that the Connoisseurs book is a must to have. Don't know if you have it already, but I would start by it if you don't

[16k]

16k, Fujishiro’s is a very useful text, hands down. If you are unsure, buy it. The fact that you do not know about it in detail, and are wondering, in itself is an indicator that you have not passed the stage where you will not need it and would instead use more advanced texts.

The references in my Nihonto library (hard copy and electronic) have cost several people (as friends gifted me many volumes and pricey books) a 5-digit $ number. I am grateful for the presents and I have personally spent thousands on books. And I keep adding to that library as one can never stop learning. It is absolutely worth it and in fact it has helped me uncover quite a few good blades or appreciate what is in front of me more fully.

I only wish I was better at languages but at least we thankfully have Markus.

 

Oh, I’m not going to argue with that! I still consider myself as a novice after a more than 20years plus interest in the subject. The lack of references is my bane. The pictures are often either focused on the Hada or on the Hamon, rarely both so it’s been an everyday struggle to learn, with some enthusiastic phases and pessimistic ones. I realize that what I really lack isn’t books, I have many of those, but live experience. And, that, in my area, is definitely not a given...

 

Hello JP,

 

 

Becareful, even if I mistaken, this is the "Shinto Shu" that is available for download by Fujishiro and not the Nihon Toko Jiten also by Fujishiro.

Here we spoke about the second one.

 

Also just to add that the Connoisseurs book is a must to have. Don't know if you have it already, but I would start by it if you don't

Hello Sébastien,

 

The Fujishiro Nihon Toko Jiten (Shinto and Kotō) can be found in the article section of that section. These are the ones I have printed, so I guess (hope?) they’re the right ones. Anyway, they’re a stand in until I buy the real deal.

 

I have the Connoisseurs book and many others. In fact, I think I have exhausted the Japanese English translations of available sword books and those written by English authors like Rayhan or Fuller and Gregory. Now I’m filling my library with Markus’ corpus little by little. I have his major titles and next on my list are his Kantei series.

[Guest Rayhan]

Seriously why is this an expensive hobby....https://yumecollection.com/education/knowledge/books here you go books.