Discrepancy between sayagaki and 著名家刀...

[Rivkin]

One thing that puzzles me is how few blades with sayagaki to Daimyo collections have actual reference to the list in 著名家刀剣目録 単行本 or similar two volume publication. Is it because sellers are sort of "lazy" to find the actual reference for their sayagaki/"Daimyo torokusho", or its basically a vain attempt because the list itself is very much incomplete?

 

Thank you!

 

Kirill R.

[Surfson]

Kirill, is there a link to that list or other way that it is accessible?  That would be very interesting to inspect and probably useful to many NMB members.  Cheers, Bob   BTW, I "discovered" your  site this week and enjoyed reading your blogs.   Finally, are you coming to Chicago this weekend?

[Vermithrax16]

Don't get me started on sayagaki discrepancies from other evaluations.....

[Rivkin]

Kirill, is there a link to that list or other way that it is accessible?  That would be very interesting to inspect and probably useful to many NMB members.  Cheers, Bob   BTW, I "discovered" your  site this week and enjoyed reading your blogs.   Finally, are you coming to Chicago this weekend?

 

Hi Bob, much appreciate it! The website is going through quiet renovations so not much new there, but I hope to get up soon a neat article on Japanese tsubas dug out on the Continent. I am stuck in CA and do constantly travel now for work without a permanent living space, so will not be able to be in Chicago, unfortunately. Same reason, with most library in storage can only say that there are published lists of Daimyo collections, of which 大名家, 著名家刀剣目録 is probably the cheapest and one of the thicker ones. It only has attribution and length, but there are quite a few sayagaki that come with a paperslip that the sword is in this or other published list for such and such family.

 

But that's about 15% of swords with sayagaki stating that this is from a specific Daimyo collection (kaho, denrai etc.).

My question was whether there is a clear understanding for the reason - I mean it makes sense in addition to sayagaki to have a clear reference and starting point in case if someone would want to trace the sword's path through archival records, like its possible in principle for Shimazu clan. 

Sayagaki says this sword was given by xxx to yyy - but where one finds details without the reference? Is it a contemporary record, or somebody in the 19th century wrote a letter to this extent, when giving it is a dowry - which is unfortunately often the case. 

 

But I guess the lists might be very incomplete, so sellers simply do not want to waste time trying to find a reference for their daimyo-sayagakied sword. Not that I would really doubt sayagi itself, since big name Daimyo ones are not that common.

 

P.S. Watched 嘘八百 on a flight over. Poorly filmed, but nice and fresh in the way it shows how other communities are a little bit more open about their "shinsa issues".

I think it gets even worse in paintings.

 

Kirill