Railway Swords & Stamps

[Bruce Pennington]

This may be a slow thread to start as these gunto are pretty rare, but I thought I'd toss it out there: Dawson lists 8 emblems but states he knows of only the first 3 found on gunto - Japanese Govt Railways, South China Railway Co, and the SMR. I'm posting the chart along with a SCR emblem found on fleabay 9 years ago (link is already dead).

 

Anyone have real examples? (I know we have lots of the SMR emblem.

I'm really looking for all the others)

[BANGBANGSAN]

Bruce

 

This is not mine,but is was the only one I ever saw had this marke on Gunto "工"-short verse for "工字鋼"  ,means shape of the railway track.Kind of like the C.G.R logo but  has a cloud shape thing in the middle.No photo for the tang.

 

Trystan

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow Trystan, completely new to me, and not on Dawson’s chart. Thanks for that one!

[Stegel]

I can only help you with pictures of old sales that i have seen, as i don't have any examples of my own. The tachi both have Mantetsu blades, the gunto is SMR.

The first Tachi has IMO more of a "real" gunto ito wrap,(that is circa WW2), while the second could be a re-wrap?

 

Trystan, thanks for sharing those great pics, very interesting!

 

Here's a Tachi : (included the nakago if it helps you out on your mantetsu database)

 

Another Tachi : (this one was discussed here on the forum, link included, again nakago pics for your info)

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/15683-ww2-southern-manchurian-railway-tachi/

 

 

Another SMR sword, this time gunto with tassel, nakago has 2 stamps:

[drb 1643]

Hi Bruce, here are some pictures of my NCR. I believe the smith is Kanemichi.

Thanks

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

I can only help you with pictures of old sales that i have seen, as i don't have any examples of my own. The tachi both have Mantetsu blades, the gunto is SMR.

The first Tachi has IMO more of a "real" gunto ito wrap,(that is circa WW2), while the second could be a re-wrap?

 

Stegel, fabulous examples! And I did not have that serial number on of that second one. Too bad you don't have it for that first one!

 

Yeah, I don't know what to think about that purple ito. They DID have some purple wraps back then, but this one just looks too new.

 

The last one with the South China railway is the second I've seen now, outside of Dawson's one, and it looks like they are all non-Mantetsu. Dawson stated that the SCR commissioned the blades, so they must have been made by other smiths.

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm adding a gunto owned by Michaelr, posted here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29676-help-with-blade-tassel-and-fittings/. It is a non-Mantetsu blade in standard IJA 98 fittings (except for the all-brown fitting paint), but has the cream/brown tassel. It is only the second tassel I've seen in these colors outside Ohmura's site. Ohmura states gunto fitted this way are from the South China Railway police. SCR was taken over by SMR. Both military and civilians worked the policing of the lines, protetcting them from sabateurs. Ohmura's discussion is here: http://ohmura-study.net/308.html

 

[Kiipu]

This is not mine, but is was the only one I ever saw had this marke on Gunto "工"-short verse for "工字鋼"  ,means shape of the railway track. Kind of like the C.G.R logo but  has a cloud shape thing in the middle. No photo for the tang.

 

This is the logo of the Manchukuo National Railway (滿洲國有鐵道) which existed from 1933 to 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo_National_Railway

 

Below is the Japanese Wikipedia page on railway rails.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/軌条

 

Thanks for sharing the pictures of this unique sword.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

That’s fabulous info Thomas, thank you for the link! That one’s not even in Dawson’s chart!

[BANGBANGSAN]

This is the logo of the Manchukuo National Railway (滿洲國有鐵道) which existed from 1933 to 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo_National_Railway

 

Below is the Japanese Wikipedia page on railway rails.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/軌条

 

Thanks for sharing the pictures of this unique sword.

That was the only one I ever saw,it is in China.

[Kiipu]

That was the only one I ever saw,it is in China.

 

Do you by chance have a picture of the overall view?  If so, I would like to see it.  If not, was it more or less a standard looking army Type 94/98 style guntō?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Do you by chance have a picture of the overall view?  If so, I would like to see it.  If not, was it more or less a standard looking army Type 94/98 style guntō?

That's the only 2 photos I saw/have,and I didn't know the owner.I think it's more like standard 98 but has MNR logo.

[Kiipu]

BangBangSan

I thought you might enjoy loooking at these pictures linked below.

"Looking for someone can read Japanese"

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/looking-for-someone-can-read-Japanese.1173364/post-10518574

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thanks Thomas!

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:19 AM, Kiipu said:

BangBangSan

I thought you might enjoy loooking at these pictures linked below.

"Looking for someone can read Japanese"

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/looking-for-someone-can-read-Japanese.1173364/post-10518574

 

Thomas

I found a photo of 滿洲國有鐵道 Brass plate

 

[Kiipu]

Thank you BangBangSan for another interesting find.  Does anyone have any ideas what the item in the middle of the trademark is?

[Stephen]

The all seeing eye.

Please sign your post per board rules Tom

[Kiipu]

9 minutes ago, Stephen said:

The all seeing eye.

Please sign your post per board rules Tom

 

My name does appear in all my posts underneath my location.  I seem to recall the moderator changing that with the new forum software.  Found the link and it is below.

Missing names?

[BANGBANGSAN]

50 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

Thank you BangBangSan for another interesting find.  Does anyone have any ideas what the item in the middle of the trademark is?

It looks like cloud

[Stephen]

Must be a cell phone thing or theme...

But look at the above post 

Trystan

Type 95 NCO ......sign name.

Im talking about each post auto sign

Not profile

[Stephen]

Yep i see it under your avy on laptop but not on cell.

[Stephen]

back to the brass maybe ii emblem?

[BANGBANGSAN]

No.2 is North China Transportation Company 華北交通株式会社 .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_China_Transportation_Company

The one I post is from Manchukuo National Railway 滿洲國國有鐵道

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo_National_Railway

[Stephen]

I didnt catch the obvious. RR tie

I know better than to play here...plus this new format that i hate...going to my room. 😆 😆 😆

[Jon MB]

Here is what appears to be a decomissioned North China Railway Sword.

The wings have been carefully filed away to make the logo less obvious.

[Jon MB]

The NCR logo was also erased from the kabuto-gane.

[Jon MB]

Peter Bleed very helpfully suggested that the smith is Kanekado.

[Jon MB]

There is patch on the scabbard where there has been a bad repaint over corrosion from where the sword was carried.

Overall, the fittings and saya are of fairly good quality.

 

With regard to the partial removal of the railroad company logo: Maybe the NCR / Kwantung army officer was sent south and removed the NCR logo at that point.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Jon MB

[Stephen]

I don't see any evidence pertaining to what you think it is or was. Is there a date on other side?

I don't think a shows stamp blade being carried as such.

[Stephen]

Oh sorry I missed the shot of no date side.

What is the medium coverage of wing part?