Are these Ko Goto?

[Surfson]

Hi all of you tosogu experts.  I am debating about what to do with a tanto (signed and dated Oei period Hishu piece), and part of the conundrum revolves around this set of fuchi kashira.  I am not an expert in anything, most not tosogu.  Any opinions about whether these are Ko Goto?  As you can see, I am also not an expert in photography.... Cheers, Bob

[Frank B]

I would say ko-kinko.

[b.hennick]

In my humble opinion the nanako are not at the level of Goto work.

[TETSUGENDO]

Ko yes, Goto no.

 

-S-

[Surfson]

Steven, how about if I rephrase the question - what are they?  Cheers, Bob

[Frank B]

  On 4/22/2019 at 12:01 AM, Surfson said:

Steven, how about if I rephrase the question - what are they?  Cheers, Bob

Hypothetically if these were sent for papers, I'd be fairly sure it would come back ko-kinko.

[Surfson]

Thanks Frank.  I did google ko kinko and came up with some similar.  Just doing a little "polling"!  Cheers, Bob

[TETSUGENDO]

  On 4/22/2019 at 12:01 AM, Surfson said:

Steven, how about if I rephrase the question - what are they?  Cheers, Bob

Hi Robert.  I agree with Frank on the Ko- Kinko attribution, and as Barry notes, not Ko-Goto. To expand on his remark, If you look at some documented examples you will note the meticulous workmanship of both the relief work and nanako-ji.  Also, any complex compositions use space much more skillfully than in this instance and, generally, allow some breathing room.  Goto work is carefully composed and drafted, nothing is left to chance.  

 

-S-

[Marius]

Not ko-kinko IMHO. Rather a relatively crude late Edo product.

[Surfson]

My photos don't do it justice.  In hand, with a glass, the parts that are not worn have very nice detail.  Thanks to all.  

[Bazza]

  On 4/22/2019 at 2:54 PM, Marius said:

Not ko-kinko IMHO. Rather a relatively crude late Edo product.

Well, agree on the seeming crudity, but there is the matter of the black lacquer that hasn't been discussed and Robert's observation very nice detail on unworn parts.  Does this indicate old, i.e. Ko Kinko, or was black lacquer on tosogu a feature even at the end of Edo???  The nanako is to my eye very crude indeed compared to top work, yet I can't see enough in the horses to comment.

 

BaZZa.

[Marius]

BaZZa,

 

 

I might be dead wrong, of course. Black lacquer is indeed rare in Edo, the gilding is worn, too. Those two factors speak for ko-kinko. The horses, however... the style is strange, it reminds me of late Edo mass production. That is what I meant by "crude" and not the absence of perfect workmanship.

[Marius]

Oh, if in doubt about my opinion - take a look at my signature and you will know everything 

[Surfson]

First, I take pride in being a supercilious nincompoop myself Marius.   I will try to take some better photos.  These were in bright sunlight with a macro that was just hand held, and I guess maybe I had too much coffee.   Cheers, B

[Bazza]

Marius, I have always LOVED your "supercilious nincompoop" line and put myself at the bottom of that class...  Which is why I allus reads your opinions closely.  To people who occasionally say "Oh, you're an expert Barry" I reply that I am a mere empty vessel regurgitating others' opinions and knowledge...

 

Best regards,

BaZZa.

[Surfson]

Aren't we all Bazza?!   The person among us who comes up with new information in Nihonto collecting is rare among us - almost nonexistent.

[raynor]

Reading this reminded me about a set I got lying around. Since it's unsigned I assumed mass production.. any suggestions to school/era?

 

[nagamaki - Franco]

While it is easy to understand wanting a definitive kantei on our fittings, sometimes we simply have to accept the fact that many of these items turnout to be the generic products of their day. In the horse f/k I do not see any characteristics that say Goto, Ko Kinko, nor any other school that generally comes to mind.

 

There's always shinsa.  

[Iekatsu]

I agree with Marius I don't see ko-kinko, its in the rendering of the horses and the composition.