Share your horror stories

[Bugyotsuji]

Happened yesterday, still raw.

 

Sure I have serious (raw) egg all over my face, but if this post stops someone else doing this, then for the greater good, here goes. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.....

 

At a friend's house, he pulled out a tanto that he had just bought, and proudly showed me the Hamon, a gentle notare that he had been searching for. I examined it at various angles, and noticed there were two carved... turtles(?) on the water buffalo horn kashira which he had not spotted. Holding it hanging vertically between my fingers I brought it close to see the turtles/tortoises. Suddenly the blade dropped straight out the tsuka hitting the expensive tiled floor point-first, right between my feet. It bounced and lay silent. No blood anywhere.

 

There had been no mekugi in the state that he had bought it. Why didn't I check it before hanging it like that? Looking back on it now there was a deep warning whisper somewhere in my brain, but I had not listened. Why? I had just been driving for several hours, so can tiredness be my excuse? Hot damn!

 

Naturally I took full responsibility and offered to pay whatever the togishi might charge for straightening a tiny bend at the tip. Secretly I am hoping that the white mark in the black slate tile will be overlooked.

 

OK, I am in the stocks now. Please throw your rotten cabbages.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Clearly an inferior blade if it didn't stick into the tiles!

[Bugyotsuji]

Clearly an inferior blade if it didn't stick into the tiles!

Loving this reply!

[Brian]

He should have warned you there was no mekugi. Or both of you should have checked. But you know that, and I think it is a good lesson learned. Could have been a lot worse.
Knowing myself...I would have put my foot out to protect the blade. That would have been a painful lesson.

[Bugyotsuji]

Ouch Brian, but yes I deserve it!

[Bazza]

Aaaaargh, Piers, I feel your pain.  No rotten cabbages from this little wood duck.

 

1.  > Suddenly the blade dropped straight out the tsuka hitting the expensive

     > tiled floor point-first, right between my feet. It bounced and lay silent. No blood anywhere.

 

Many years ago I saw exactly the same - EXACTLY - the same thing happen to a VERY experienced mate of mine.  The tanto blade left the handle and hit the carpeted floor.  It didn't bounce, rather, it stuck into the floor and gently keeled over, slightly bending the point - clearly an inferior blade because it didn't snap off!!!  Never mind American Express, the look on my mate's face was indeed priceless.  He looked at me (no one else saw it), picked it up, put it all back together and had a quiet word with the owner.  All was cool, no problem at all and I believe the kissaki was straightened in the workshop the next day!

 

2.  When very young handling my first sword, a skinny Koto katana in Shingunto koshirae, somehow I lost control of it and it fell from my right-handed grasp.  Instinctively I tried to catch the blade in mid-air with my left hand (didn't think of my left foot).  Not successful and I'm giving the fine, short, suguha scar over my thumb joint a respectful glance as I type this.  The sword wasn't damaged, but lesson learnt - until the next mishap some 50 years later...

 

So Piers, you are in good company and I suspect the membership of this exclusive group is larger than we care to 'collectively' admit.

 

BaZZa.

[paulb]

As it is confession time I admit the sources of the two scars on my hand couldn't be more different. The first, totally not Nihonto related was a severe slash inflicted by a baked on piece of roast potato I was trying to seperate from a baking tray

The second which is sword related was a Friday night expereince. I used to work for an incredibly talented but flawed gentleman who was in the habit of drinking too much and then calling members of his sales force to give them a hard time. His aim to prove he was in charge and hopefully ruin their weekend. This Friday was my turn and at 9.30 pm as I sat with a sword in hand the phone rang and the rollicking began. Half way through I stood up and watched with horror as the blade slid from the saya. I tried to catch it, which with hindsight was a mistake. 10 minute later I was still trying to get the drunk off the phone and stop bleeding on the floor at the same time.

Moral of the story don't talk to drunks when you are holding a sword and beware of savage pieces of baked vegetable waiting to inflict pain

[16k]

Baked potatoes are indeed a very lethal weapon. Those cooked by Masamune are said to be the best!

[Ed]

Holding it hanging vertically between my fingers I brought it close to see the turtles/tortoises. Suddenly the blade dropped straight out the tsuka hitting the expensive tiled floor point-first, right between my feet.

 

About 15 years ago I was standing in the shop with my partner in Japan.  He picked up a wakizashi, pulled it from the saya, pointed it down and the blade slipped out of the saya went through both his boot and his foot and stuck into the wood floor. 

 

It was seriously stuck in the floor and he could not remove it.  I had to stand on the tip of his boot and forcibly pull it out.  Fortunately it went right between those tendons in your feet and other than a considerable amount of blood, a few stitches and a ruined boot he was fine.

 

He had forgotten to replace the mekugi peg earlier, something I am sure he never did again.

[ChrisW]

As the old saying goes, "play with fire and you'll eventually get burned."

 

Of course, I wouldn't say we play with our nihonto so much as enjoy them. But working with something potentially dangerous means (usually) eventually your number does get called.

[Bugyotsuji]

On warfarin for about three years until they changed it to Rivaroxaban.

 

The less coagulating the blood, the more exciting the game!

[Vermithrax16]

Luckily my only "horror" story was finding out humidity can REALLY affect shirasaya if there is too little of it. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Last summer we had some serious floods in the surrounding areas here, which I mentioned in another thread. A friend is part of the prefecture's special consultation team for family swords which had been underwater. The water was not particularly clean in many cases. Many old people live in these villages, and often such swords had lain unregistered.

 

We heard stories of houses being washed away or being knocked down and things being discovered in the rubble. My friend helped out eight or nine people who brought their overall relatively lightly rusted swords to the prefectural office window, oh and one matchlock. Volunteer togishi were offering their services at special cheap prices. But he told me of old widows who were too afraid to declare an unregistered sword, and this fear coupled with the rumored astronomical cost of polishing, led them to junk the long-treasured family sword.

 

Extrapolate this story to Fukushima and countless other floods and earthquakes and like natural calamities, and imagine the terrible attrition over the years.

[Bugyotsuji]

Another friend was telling me yesterday about an employee of A*** Trading who was handling and cleaning a Juyo tachi in their store but then dropped it, doing quite a bit of damage to the blade.

 

To add insult to injury, this member of staff said absolutely nothing and made no attempt to apologize apparently, sending the store owner into a some kind of rage.

[Brian]

On warfarin for about three years until they changed it to Rivaroxaban.

 

The less coagulant the blood, the more exciting the game!

Ditto, on Xarelto (Rivaroxaban) for life. Can't just reverse the effects like you can with Warfarin.

I always tell the doctors "good thing I don't play with guns and knives every day....oh wait....!"

Keeps things interesting.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another friend was telling me yesterday about an employee of A*** Trading who was handling and cleaning a Juyo tachi in their store but then dropped it, doing quite a bit of damage to the blade.

 

To add insult to injury, this member of staff said absolutely nothing and made no attempt to apologize apparently, sending the store owner into a some kind of rage.

I would be apoplectic at that employee, at least if he lopped off a limb while dropping it there would be some face saved...

[Death-Ace]

As a starter, there are two blades I wish I had never parted with or least saw through: An early uchigatana and and Kurihara Nobuhide (most likely gimei but was stout and long!) I had.

 

That being said, these are the worst stories I've personally experienced:

 

1) My first two "katana" were two Chinese fakes emulating a tachi and a gunto. As a 10 year old kid, I was happy, but after a short amount of time, I realized how dumb I felt, lol.

 

2) Before I enlisted, I ran ads for WWII militaria. One guy noted that he had a short blade picked up from the war by his grandfather. Even though the photos he sent were blurry, I noted a possibly very wavy "hamon through the patina." But the only photos were of the blade, and not the mounts Thinking maybe it was a nice Shinto ko-wakizashi, I set up an appt.

 

He brought it in and the first thing I noticed was that the "tsuka" was two pinned pieces of wood, not unlike some hunting knives. Even though I figured, maybe even though the nakago is damaged, could still be a decent study piece for a price. The saya was damaged with a missing kozuka, but was the ribbed design. After pulling out the blade, I was in shock. The "hamon" was just a very very recent grinding by sandpaper made by the grandson shortly before he put it for sale. Was light, but still there and it reached towards the shinogi. The rest of the blade was pure black from patina was a couple of tiny chips in the ha.

 

According to him, his grandfather used it as a weedwhacker and finally put it away for a machete that did a better job. The handle was made when the tsuka had broken and he threw that away along with the habaki ("some brass collar") so that he had an extra inch to work with. The tsuba was misplaced and never found.

 

After looking at it, I figured it was trashed but I still thought about buying it if not to just be a reminder of blades of what happened to quite a few of the blades that made it here and give the old girl a retirement home. He said 100, and I said I couldn't since it was most likely destroyed beyond repair. After a bit of haggling he started to leave and he asked if I could take 75. I said no, but a few days later he offered it for 50 which I responded the same. In all honesty, I do wish I did buy it for the saya and to give the blade a rest, especially to take the "tsuka off" and have a look see.

 

2) I was at a gun show in Raleigh, NC when I was stationed at Lejeune and had brought in an early T94 Nambu with two matching magazines and holster brought back by a Marine. It was only for show and tell, but at the table of one dealer I had bpught from before, I noted a blade in civilian/gunto mounts. It was missing the leather saya cover, but had a very nice, wide suguha and itame hada. Was also a beefy and longish blade at about 27". It had a little bit of rust, especially on the kissaki, but I was in love. I hated to do it, but I did a trade with the T94, which was also rusty as all get out. Getting to my car, the first thing I did was take off the tsuka with a sword care set and it appeared it hadn't been off at least since "45, the nakago looking new with a well cut nakago. I did get info of the two character mei, and was happy.

 

After heading home, I had taken the time to take a close look under the sunlight where I found not one...but two hagire in the middle of the ha.

 

 

3) Not so personal, but my family runs an estate sale/antiquing business on the side. I do/did get a quite a few pieces for my collection of militaria and such from that by giving the family what something was worth or dealing. Unfortunately, especially for the sale, many people do not honor the contract to not take anything from the estate after signing since that was for the sale. Most with the "I forgot something sentimental" after we pulled something from the attic or such which was normally the high priced items.

 

Moving on, my folks pulled a sword from the attic from a Marine's estate that he brought back from his time in the China occupation. According to them, it was in the T-98 but was high quality with a field grade tassel, a beautiful blade with a "slightly wavy tempering pattern' and a silver foil habaki. Blade also had a nice "curve to it." They were tired so they placed the blade to the side to take pictures later and see if I wanted to make an offer or such.

 

The next day, it was gone. Grandson said it was sentimental, but left a lot of the vet's personal letters, uniforms, etc behind. Kicker is that it along with a few other things had been up there since '46 when he returned.

 

While some may think it selfish, we do tend to bring some higher priced items home for research (as we do everything we are sure or unsure of as well) and to ensure it isn't taken before the sale. However, we do ask the individual/family we are contracting with if there is anything they are missing that we will find and give to them before the signing of the contract.

[Rivkin]

I'll post my horror story which sort of relates to another recent topic of unique challenges faced by newbies in nihonto.

My interest in nihonto was on and off for a while, mostly because in the beginning I simply had no money, and then I became disillusioned in what I saw being offered compared to other collectible fields (which turned out in part also being the case of not having enough money), and so on, but at some point I picked a few pieces.

 

One of them looked like Rai tanto and I was very happy to bring it to a well respected person, whom quite a few here would call a Sensei. I have to admit he was very kind during this first meeting, spending about 5 minutes talking about the tanto. Which was his lamentation of the abuse of beginners - the tanto had a wielded nakago, and then he pointed out (there was almost polished over remain of ken horimono) that at some point kozuka's blade's must have cut through saya and made such impression, and then there were obviously multiple problems in the hamon, of likely lethal nature, and so on.

 

I was rather worried, but at the same time concerned that this seemed a rather categorical interpretation of whatever little hints (given the state of polish) that were observable, and I already had a decade of low level experience to know how really and certainly bad things do look like. And having to admit being raised in a community with high (absolutely unacceptable) level of prejudice, I was taught (purely baseless and evil generalization) that people of certain backgrounds tend to be more headstrong and proud of their opinions, even when such are guesses, and they really should not be.

Long story short, it was submitted to NBTHK, stellar papers.

I would consider the possibility of NBTHK being at fault here, but frankly the blade looked right. Big name was expected by a few simple folks who seen it, with no Sensei added to their name.

 

The moral I guess is that even very experienced people do make mistakes. More so when the blade is out of polish, and probably even more so if its not of the very top quality or the work is of a more calm sort where one has to sit down and look and look at it, for hours if needed. And probably even more so when the person holding the blade is introduced as this guy you never met who just picked up some stuff from a newspaper on the floor setup of a local trash dealer.

 

Never mind a newbie who is trying to navigate through the nihonto difficulties.

 

Kirill R.

[Bugyotsuji]

Until you feel 100% comfortable with your own judgment, it is always useful to collect opinions, three at a minimum. Almost everyone has an opinion!

 

A bit like a yacht deploying a sea anchor or drogue in a stormy ocean, you need some stabilizing force.

[Vermithrax16]

Kirill, 

 

Tried to follow along in your post, a bit confusing.

 

A well known guy looked at your (I assume out of polish? What was the state, can you show pictures?) tanto and observed a welded on nakago, polished down horimono, and saw clear flaws, perhaps fatal, in the hamon area?

 

Then you submitted this same blade in the same state and got NBTHK papers to a Rai name/school? 

 

If all that's true, well that person is not really an expert all all.

 

Now, if the blade was restored then sent to to shinsa, than changes things a bit, but then what was the initial state of the work and how did you discern Rai from a rough shape blade? Would be an interesting study.

 

Love all these stories, so just trying to get a clear picture here.

[Rivkin]

The state was about 70% in polish on one side and about 30% on the other. There was no additional polishing done. The gentleman is very well regarded, very experienced and his spoken opinions are referenced here. He claimed for certain that nakago was wielded on to pass it as genuine old Rai, remains of horimono was rather damage from kozuka blade, and likely there were fatal flaw or flaws in hamon, but he was uncertain on this point.

 

The lighting was poor (just standard overhead lights) so that was one factor, and the other one was I guess an expectation that people don't come out of nowhere with good swords they just bought on the corner. I don't position it as a criticism of anyone in particular. An example of someone making really bad judgement. I saw worse.

It was an unpleasant moment for myself at the time and same goes for the tanto's seller, to whom I retold the speech, but in the end was a nice learning.

 

Kirill R.

[w.y.chan]

Here's a horror story of horror stories, and it's absolutely true. A lady walked into karate dojo and asked the teacher if he was interested in buying Japanese swords. He showed her how to take off the handle and showed her the signed nakago. "Please bring in your swords". The lady came back a month later with seven tangs, that were sawed off, Probably because they fitted in her purse, This happened forty years ago, maybe some of you heard this story? I didn't ask if he bought the tangs, as I was in shock!

 

Tom D.

 

 

Sounds like a Roald Dahl story from this 40yrs old TV show

https://youtu.be/zxjzGZjPZZQ