What makes a katana "suitable for iai and/or tameshigiri"? not their "better" works?

[terminus]

I'm asking this question because every now and then I see a beautiful katana on sale from a mukansa smith or older period smith and I see "suitable for iai and/or tameshigiri". Does this mean the sword was never their upper tier "art sword" work and and more of a workhorse? Is it because of the weight of the sword?

Here's a few examples: 
https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-bugei-ju-kanekuni-sakumukansa-sword-smith/

A lot on here:
http://www.e-sword.jp/nihontou.htm

[Rivkin]

Suitable for iai - just swing it, not worth looking at; or simply too modern

For a Martial Artist - not worth a proper polish; or simply too modern

Known for their sharpness - these are old but, not art swords

 

Kirill R.

[Katsujinken]

Basically, yes.

 

In the case of a nihonto that is pre-Meiji, it's essentially a question of quality and whether or not the risks/wear and tear to the sword inherent in the practice of Iai/kenjutsu outweigh its intrinsic value and potential preservation. For example, swords used for tameshigiri do need ot be sharpened periodically, which as we all know, shortens the life of the sword. It's essentially a consumable. Different folks have different opinions on this, of course.

 

For a modern sword - a shinsakuto - it essentially comes down to whether or not the blade was intended as an art sword to begin with. Usually art swords are made with higher quality materials (e.g. the really good tamahagane  ). So for shinsakuto it's basically about intention.  

[Moley]

Suitable for iai = bo hi for loud tachi kaze, + a don’t care if i damage the tip during chiburi, don’t care about handling it with sweaty hands. Best thing is iaito. Never nihonto.

Suitable for tameshigiri = no bo hi, +a dont care if I scuff it and scrTch it maybe even God forbid bend it. Best thing Chinese shinken ofgood quality. Never nihonto.

All nihonto for study and appreciation.

[Ken-Hawaii]

+1

[PNSSHOGUN]

Japanese don't have access to chinese made shinken, older average quality swords are cheaper than having a new sword made.

[eternal_newbie]

Even mukansa smiths would have made swords for practical use to pay the bills in the many years before they achieve mukansa status. These swords, while often beautiful to look at, have durability, balance and/or cutting ability prioritized over art appreciation, and typically have a lower-grade polish that won't be much affected by a few scratches here and there.

 

Works from high-ranking modern smiths but in a style they're not famed or prized for can also get designated as "suitable for iai" - for example, the katana linked above is by Kanekuni, who (along with his father) is renowned for his Sukehiro-esque toranba and won prizes for submitting blades in that style. His Mino-style works, such as the one in the Aoi-Art link, are therefore seen as not particularly high in desirability, as these aren't what won him fame and prestige, and thus get added to the "iai" pile. Add to that the fact that this blade was made in 1992, a full 17 years before he was awarded mukansa status, so even if it was among his upper tier works at the time, it can't compete with the upper tier of his works at the height of his prowess and renown. Much easier for a seller to hedge their bets and market it as suitable for the martial arts crew, who aren't as concerned with style or name recognition.

[vajo]

You can use every well forged sword for iai. It depends what you see in the sword. If you have a big moneyback you can put your rai kunimitsu yujo papered in a koshirae and use it for martial arts. So what?

As a collector i have a different view on this. Iai and tamashigiri is sport and has nothing to do with the preservation and enjoyment of sword collecting. Some uses Gendaito for tamashigiri because they see no worth in it. There is no base for a discussion what makes sense and what not.

 

Every Japanese sword which was made in the last 1000 years was made für use.

[terminus]

Even mukansa smiths would have made swords for practical use to pay the bills in the many years before they achieve mukansa status. These swords, while often beautiful to look at, have durability, balance and/or cutting ability prioritized over art appreciation, and typically have a lower-grade polish that won't be much affected by a few scratches here and there.

 

Works from high-ranking modern smiths but in a style they're not famed or prized for can also get designated as "suitable for iai" - for example, the katana linked above is by Kanekuni, who (along with his father) is renowned for his Sukehiro-esque toranba and won prizes for submitting blades in that style. His Mino-style works, such as the one in the Aoi-Art link, are therefore seen as not particularly high in desirability, as these aren't what won him fame and prestige, and thus get added to the "iai" pile. Add to that the fact that this blade was made in 1992, a full 17 years before he was awarded mukansa status, so even if it was among his upper tier works at the time, it can't compete with the upper tier of his works at the height of his prowess and renown. Much easier for a seller to hedge their bets and market it as suitable for the martial arts crew, who aren't as concerned with style or name recognition.

Thank you! makes a lot of sense and great explanation. Also some tips for when I'm purchasing a modern sword too!

[Greg F]

Gwyn is pretty spot on imho.

 

Greg

[RichardP]

In the case of a nihonto that is pre-Meiji, it's essentially a question of quality and whether or not the risks/wear and tear to the sword inherent in the practice of Iai/kenjutsu outweigh its intrinsic value and potential preservation. For example, swords used for tameshigiri do need to be sharpened periodically, which as we all know, shortens the life of the sword. It's essentially a consumable.

 

This leads me to wonder, how does one go about getting a non-art sword sharpened? (I am assuming that togishi who polish art swords don’t spend their time putting fresh edges on Chinese-made shinken...?)

Thanks,

Richard

[Katsujinken]

This leads me to wonder, how does one go about getting a non-art sword sharpened? (I am assuming that togishi who polish art swords don’t spend their time putting fresh edges on Chinese-made shinken...?)

Thanks,

Richard

Outside of Japan, you can work with a place like Nihonzashi, in Florida. It’s a Battodo dojo + traditional martial arts store. They sharpen modern production blades.

 

Within Japan, there are no Chinese made shinken, so it’s just a matter of getting a lower grade polish on a shinsakuto, which is no problem. There’s no shortage of tameshigiri practice over there, so it’s a common need.

[RichardP]

Outside of Japan, you can work with a place like Nihonzashi, in Florida. It’s a Battodo dojo + traditional martial arts store. They sharpen modern production blades.

Within Japan, there are no Chinese made shinken, so it’s just a matter of getting a lower grade polish on a shinsakuto, which is no problem. There’s no shortage of tameshigiri practice over there, so it’s a common need.

Interesting—thank you, Michael!

Richard