Any recommended sword polishers in Europe

[Beater]

Hi Guys,

 

A friend in Germany, new to the hobby, has asked me if I know of any polishers either in Germany or the wider Europe you can recommend? He has neither the money or sword to justify a Japanese polish but wants someone competent who will give it a new lease of life without doing any harm.

 

Your suggestions gratefully received.

 

Regards,

 

Kevin

[Robin]

Martin Hornak from Slovakia.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Do we assume that your friend doesn't want or need any feedback from the forum on whether his blade is in any condition to be polished?

[uwe]

There is someone in Berlin. Stefan, I guess he’s a member here....

[ROKUJURO]

Uwe,

I never heard about someone living in Germany and being traditionally trained in Japan. It is difficult to decide if a self-taught polisher is competent enough to be recommended. 

[suketaka]

Hello Kevin,

 

i recommend Stefan Wuttke from Berlin.

 

Here two jobs he made for me.

 

https://www.nihontophoto.com/sakura-shi-hosokawa-tadayoshi

 

https://www.nihontophoto.com/kiyondo

 

Regards

 

Michael

[Ray Singer]

There is a contradiction in wanting to go to an unlicensed, amateur togishi and having the restoration done 'without doing any harm'. It may be best to preserve the sword in its current condition until he or another owner is ready to have the sword professionally restored.

[Ray Singer]

BTW, it also goes against the forum policies to post recommendations for amateur togishi.

[Beater]

Firstly, thank you to those members who supplied details of German / European polishers, as requested.

The photos supplied seem to contradict the opinions expressed above that amateur / unlicensed = must do harm and that is certainly not my experience.

 

Do we assume that your friend doesn't want or need any feedback from the forum on whether his blade is in any condition to be polished?

Your assumption is correct. His sword is being taken to a European NBTHK meeting for discussion. Better, I’m sure you would agree, than opinions based only on looking at photographs here? Depending on the outcome he will decide what the next step will be.

[nickm]

from what I have read and seen an amateur can make the blade "look pretty" to someone who doesnt know any better. Often though while making it look nice they will ruin the geometry of the blade, cause dips and valleys when looking down the blade, expose core steel etc..

 

If it were easy to do it right it wouldnt be expensive.

 

Years ago before I knew better i sent a sword to an amateur that was well reputed and thought he did a great job. I was really impressed with the look of it. Long after I showed it to a gentleman more knowledgable and he showed me the various ways the polish likely ruined the blade. Lesson learned

[nickm]

You will find as I have that on this forum and likely at nbthk meetings these people are truly passionate about the preservation of these blades. It will be hard to find many that will want to steer you a direction that even may do the blade harm.

[uwe]

Uwe,

 

I never heard about someone living in Germany and being traditionally trained in Japan. It is difficult to decide if a self-taught polisher is competent enough to be recommended. 

 

Thats right Jean, but....

I don´t like to start this discussion once again...the point where the cat bites its tail

[Beater]

from what I have read and seen an amateur can make the blade "look pretty" to someone who doesnt know any better. Often though while making it look nice they will ruin the geometry of the blade, cause dips and valleys when looking down the blade, expose core steel etc..

If it were easy to do it right it wouldnt be expensive.

Years ago before I knew better i sent a sword to an amateur that was well reputed and thought he did a great job. I was really impressed with the look of it. Long after I showed it to a gentleman more knowledgable and he showed me the various ways the polish likely ruined the blade. Lesson learned

I don't post here very often, more of a lurker but I now realise this is one of those can of worms subjects. Sorry, no grief intended, only wanted a quick bit of advice, less of a lecture. Perhaps my low post count made you think I'm new to this.

 

Anyway, now you know better, perhaps you could tell us specifically, what you see wrong with the two examples posted in the links above? Looks good to me.

 

In the 80's, when I began sword-collecting, there were certainly dubious polishing practices but there are now amateurs who do not make the sort of errors you unfortunately experienced. I am in the UK so unable to comment on what is available in the US, other than Fred Lohman, nor indeed in Europe, which is why I asked the original question, for the benefit of a European acquaintance.

 

So, whilst I appreciate your advice, which was well intentioned, I have opinions of my own, which may not necessarily differ greatly from yours. But please remember, in England we have our own tradition of sword-making going back thousands of years and the Europeans have shown a bit of a flair for art over the last few millennia, so don't be surprised if the skill-sets here are different from where you live.

[nickm]

Sorry man, had no intentions of casting a dark cloud on europes rich history in nihonto. I always thought it was more of a Japanese thing..

 

I'm a touch surprised that in your 40 years of collecting you haven't come across a good polisher but I guess always good to start the search some time.. I wish you the absolute best of luck I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

[Luc T]

Try Zenon Van Damme, Belgium, professionally trained.

[Jean]

Zenon was not there at our last meeting in March, he was suffering hell from a sore back, I hope he has recovered but he could not walk or stay sitted

[takakage]

Hi, one togishi is Italian and got award by Nbthk.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I might be stepping into ants nest with this one, and I am not qualified to recommend anyone. Like was suggested above contacting NBTHK-EU is a good way to go and they can be of assistance.

 

However could it be possible to create of a list of craftsmen in various fields who have had traditional training (from whom), awards from Japan (from which organization), etc.?

 

I know for polishing training & awards

 

Andrew Ickeringill (AUS) - Completed traditional training (and a member in here)

Massimo Rossi (ITA) - Has gotten multiple Nyusen awards from NBTHK

Anthony Norman (UK) - Has gotten Nyusen from NBSK

[Beater]

Sorry man, had no intentions of casting a dark cloud on europes rich history in nihonto. I always thought it was more of a Japanese thing..

I'm a touch surprised that in your 40 years of collecting you haven't come across a good polisher but I guess always good to start the search some time.. I wish you the absolute best of luck I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

European influence on Nihonto (plus their firearms and armour) is well documented but I think you really know I wasn't making a reference to Nihonto - just "swords" which have been made here for thousands of years and smooth stones found in streams used to polish them, since the Bronze Age. Transferable skills and all that being the point, which I don't think was wasted on you.

 

But please, re-read it carefully Nick. The request for a German / European polisher isn't to satisfy my needs. I am, as stated, in the UK and know where to go for all the Nihonto services I need. I also subscribe to a notion of horses for courses and who I would use for any particular task. I remain open-minded in respect of unlicensed polishers - for appropriate work. Incidentally, those swords which I own which are in Japanese polish and papered, were bought in that condition, which I find is the safest and most economical way to achieve those ends.

[nickm]

In all truth I am relatively new to this and am still learning all the time. Might you have any information or even better web links to things I could read about the European influence? As again I am always trying to learn something new this is a very interesting facet. Not too interested in the influence on armor as I am in the notion of European influence on the swords. Thank you for a new thing for me to ponder

[Ken-Hawaii]

Beater, please post your first name, per Brian's rules.

 

Another of his rules is to NOT recommend anyone who is not fully-qualified to preserve Japanese swords. So, despite the fact that you "remain open-minded in respect of unlicensed polishers" does not make it appropriate for NMB.

[Beater]

In all truth I am relatively new to this and am still learning all the time. Might you have any information or even better web links to things I could read about the European influence? As again I am always trying to learn something new this is a very interesting facet. Not too interested in the influence on armor as I am in the notion of European influence on the swords. Thank you for a new thing for me to ponder

Nick,

 

Namban (南蛮) is a term you must be familiar with? Where found, such as in Nihonto mei and tsuba design. are just two Nihonto-related examples and are evidence of foreign (European) influence.

 

Apologies for not adding a name. I was unaware of all those rules - like most people that sign a contract without reading all the T’s & C’s.

 

Kevin.

[PNSSHOGUN]

There are no open minds here about amateur or non-traditionally trained polishers. SFI or sword buyers guide forum would be the place to inquire about those.

[Beater]

There are no open minds here about amateur or non-traditionally trained polishers. SFI or sword buyers guide forum would be the place to inquire about those.

Hello John,

Thank you for you wise words and suggestions. I couldn’t help noticing you specialise in gunto. In fact I read a thread in which you people were sort of wishing for a special dream sword and you wanted a General’s shingunto. Although I don’t collect military swords anymore, I thought this might at least interest you?

 

I no longer own it and the photo of the sword is taken on my phone camera of an old photo, so apologises for that but you can see the important bits. It was surrendered in Jan 1946 to Major Gen. Evans at Bangkok Siam. The largest surrender ceremony of senior Japanese officers, consisting 18 Generals and two Admirals. It took place in front of a contingent of Allied soldiers which included Colin Butler, the senior RAF officer in the region. After each of the Japanese walked across the lawn and bowed to Evans, they laid their swords on a Union Jack covered table, bowed and returned to their line. After the ceremony the swords were distributed to the Allied officers present by Evans and Mr Butler received a shingunto with gold thread aiguilette tied to the ashi ring.

 

One Sunday afternoon in the late 80’s Mr Butler arrived on my doorstep carrying his sword. I had not been expecting him. He had obtained my name from a group of Burma Star veterans, who I supported in their twilight years. He left the sword with me for a month, to clean and research before returning to collect it. In that time I discovered it to be a 14th century, signed tachi by Shigetsugu. I even had a Japanese speaking friend send details to a well known Japanese sword dealer to get a valuation.

 

Some months later, again without warning Mr Butler returned and asked me what I would be prepared to offer him. I told him with three children, a mortgage and policeman’s wages, I couldn’t afford what we both knew it to be worth. He said, I know that but what’s your best offer, as I want you to have it. As you can see I mustered the then (for me) eyewatering sum of a thousand pounds - about a quarter of its worth, which he accepted. He later said, whatever you had said, I would have accepted as you clearly love these things.

 

The kaigunto, as you like gunto, has a Shinto blade by Hoki no kami Fujiwara Nobutaka. The linen surrender tag is featured in Richard Fuller’s book, which I expect you have. Both swords long since sold.

I also read your thread in which you expressed your like of swords with practical fighting quality over art swords. Well don’t worry, you’ll get over it. You’ll discover in life that life-giving qualities always prevail over life-taking. Conquering evil, not the opponent, is the essence of swordsmanship.

 

One more thing you’ll notice a photo in front of my home made stand. It is one of a bunch I got with the sword. When I told Ron Gregory and Richard Fuller about it at the time, I was informed that neither the Imperial War Museum nor your equivalent in Australia had any photos as, due to the sensitive nature, all official photographers had been banned. I asked Mr Butler about this who told me he gave his box Brownie to his Batman, who was in the crowd and snapped them. So I had copies made and gave them to Mr Gregory to circulate.

 

There were no identifying features on the sword to determine which of the Generals it belonged to. The aiguillette means I believe, he was an adjutant / aide decamp(?), probably to a Field Marshal and I think in Fuller’s Shokan, two are listed amongst those Generals present that day.

 

I apologise for that rather long walk down memory lane but felt the need to indulge myself. Oh, and don’t worry, I didn’t get an amateur polish done on either of these????

 

Regards,

 

Kevin

[ROKUJURO]

Uwe,

I understand your point, I feel the same. But whenever the question of cheap polishers with unclear qualification comes up again and again, I am afraid my answer will be the same.

I think the NMB has enough material to read about this subject, but perhaps a short article about this should be tagged in a prominent place for new members, just to prevent those repeated questions and discussions..  
 

Thats right Jean, but....

I don´t like to start this discussion once again...the point where the cat bites its tail

[ROKUJURO]

Kevin,

as you seem to be well acquainted with the subject of NIHONTO, I am a bit surprized about your question. You will certainly know that there are no shortcuts in TOGI, so the chance that a European polisher might find a way to bring out the HARARAKI of a blade at a lower price than his Japanese collegues is small. The foundation polish is what allows the features of a blade to be made visible later, and there is no way around that.

The NMB policy not to support amateur work on NIHONTO has nothing to do with arrogance or an elitistic aproach, as you may see it. It is just a responsible attitude as we are only caretakers of these wonderful weapons for a short span of time, so we should avoid everything that could negatively affect them.    

[Beater]

Kevin,

as you seem to be well acquainted with the subject of NIHONTO, I am a bit surprized about your question. You will certainly know that there are no shortcuts in TOGI, so the chance that a European polisher might find a way to bring out the HARARAKI of a blade at a lower price than his Japanese collegues is small. The foundation polish is what allows the features of a blade to be made visible later, and there is no way around that.

The NMB policy not to support amateur work on NIHONTO has nothing to do with arrogance or an elitistic aproach, as you may see it. It is just a responsible attitude as we are only caretakers of these wonderful weapons for a short span of time, so we should avoid everything that could negatively affect them.

 

Jean,

 

Thank you for speaking to me in a polite way. I fully understand and accept everything you say. With hindsight, what I regret was asking. I should have used the search facility first and gauged the mood.

 

No, arrogance and elitism were not actually what sprung to my mind as the possible reason behind the policy. Neither did the references to the absence of open-mindedness surprise me.

 

Rest assure my friend, if there were a Nihonto equivalent of the hippocratic oath, then I promise "primum non nocere".

 

Sincerely,

 

Kevin.

[Jean]

I liked Kevin’s post because all his swords were coming from Japan in full polish