Genuine or Fake WWII NCO Swords?

[Tomuel]

Good Day All from Australia

 

I am a young antiques dealer from Brisbane, Australia. I recently acquired these swords and am trying to gather all the information and opinions I can to be confident in reselling them. 

 

 

The sword with factory numbers and markings is 36 1/2 inches in length, with a blade length of 27 1/2 inches. The other sword is 38 inches overall with a blade length of 26 1/2 inches. I have little knowledge in this area so any information would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Lastly, the sale of these swords are much stricter in Australia and therefore there is little reference I can find to what people are actually willing to pay in the current market. If it is agreed these swords are genuine - if I could be provided with a reasonable estimation of their current market value it would also be greatly appreciated. 

[ChrisW]

For other members to give you a more accurate readout of these, you should disassemble them so they can get a view of the nakago (tang) as well as shots of the tsuba (guard) and the whole length of the blade. From what I can see, the one with the wooden handle looks like a late-war blade whereas the other is more mid-war. I don't know how others would describe the wooden handle one, but I've heard the term "last ditch" tossed around a lot for swords of that type. They're both WWII vintage. Matching serials are definitely a bonus that militaria collectors appreciate. I'd wait for Bruce's prognosis, he's the resident expert on these.

[Bruce Pennington]

Both appear legit. First one made by the Seki Token Co., inspected by Nagoya Inspector, under Kokura Arsenal administration. Second one very late war. Both Type 95s.

 

Prices are all over the place in U.S.A. You can find them for $600, many in the $1,200 range, and crazy ones over $2,000. I haven't been pricing the late war ones, so disregard what I said for that one, I don't know.

 

On the 95's I wouldn't remove the handles. There's nothing there (except an occacional "W" stamp) and the handles often loosen up after re-assembling. I take all mine apart, but I'm the owner. I wouldn't do it as a seller.

[Tomuel]

Thank you for the swift replies.

 

To Chris, thanks for the information. In all honesty, I am not confident enough to disassemble and reassemble the swords so if that is needed I will have to run through a few youtube tutorials first.

 

To Bruce, again, thanks for the information. I was hoping to get $1000 USD for the pair ($700 & $300 respectively). Given the information you provided and the condition of the blades (they had been stored away in a collection since the mid 60s I was told) I should have no trouble getting a reasonable price for them.  

[IJASWORDS]

Do not disassemble them.

[Brian]

They are worth more than that. The top one on its own is rare, and is worth more than that figure alone. You need to do your research on that one, they are very sought after.
Both are arsenal mass produced types, but lots of militaria collectors around. Bottom is the regular machine made NCO Shin Gunto. They used to be around $300, but prices have climbed rapidly and average prices are around $800 or so if matching numbers.
Gut feel is you have about double your estimate. If you do well, a donation is appreciated
We have lots of Aussie collectors here, and I am sure some will be able to advise you. Those that aren't pissed at me for stopping them from picking up a steal
I bet the pm's are flying.

[Tomuel]

Thank you Brian for your honesty. 

 

I certainly wasn't trying to push a sale through this forum but if this avenue led to a buyer I would happily give them a great deal on the figures you suggested and a donation to the forum. It's great in my line of business when information is fast at hand and happily supplied by those who enjoy it. Try trawling forums and books for a rare porcelain mark, it's painful!

 

By the top one are you referring to the wooden handled one?

[Brian]

Yes. This is the book you want to pick up: https://www.amazon.com/Swords-Imperial-Japan-1868-1945/dp/0971912726
If you decide on a price and list them in our for sale section (free, and no donation required) I am sure you will find a buyer. We do expect our vendors to offer a decent deal to the members.

[Brian]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/20040-late-war-last-ditch-nco-opinions/

 

I am no expert on these, so cannot confirm if they are original or not, or give a firm value. May be more..I don't know.
 

[Tomuel]

I didn't even look for a sales section. Foolish of me. Thank you for your time on this

[vajo]

The late 95 is a beauty. I sesrch very long for this version. Congratulation!

[Shamsy]

Do not disassemble them. There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose if you damage the sword, screws, handle or can't get it to refit. They are mass produced NCO swords, no 'craftmanship' as it were. The aluminium handle is a pretty okay Seki. I'd say you should get $1200 AUD easily enough. The second with the ring handles is very rare and should fetch an easy $4,000 AUD. Prices in Australia are often either highly inflated or much less than the US. We don't have many swords in the market and there is a false perception they cannot be imported or owned. Stupid bullshit about a license made up by idiots with no clue.

 

Do some research on the swords or you will get fleeced.

 

Oh, I'll add I collect NCO almost exclusively. I'm interested in acquiring both swords, but am in the unfortunate position of only being able to offer trades, not cash, which may not be your forte. I have a beautiful Mantetsu and a few other bits I can offer. PM me if you are interested.

 

I'm happy to give you a hand if you need, regardless of what you decide, being a resident Aussie.

[Brian]

Great advice and help. I suggest you make use of some of the assistance offered. Would be great to keep them with collectors who would appreciate them too.

[Tomuel]

I agree Brian the assistance has been wonderful. I'll do what I can to make sure someone here gets a nice rare addition to their collection. The help from everyone is highly appreciated so I thank you all. 

[brannow]

Yes the late war sword sword on the top is pretty desirable and valuable!  The Bottom nco is also pretty nice! 

[Brian]

No update, I hope this wasn't just a quick hit and run.
 

[Tomuel]

Apologies Brian, the swords were sold to one of your forum members and I believe he is very happy with his purchase. I didn't update the thread because I know some people prefer to keep some anonymity when purchasing swords privately, especially given the rarity of the late war one. Looking through other posts though it seems to be customary to keep the thread regularly updated though so in the future I'll make sure to do so.  

[PNSSHOGUN]

Tom, I would recommend listing any future swords you get here, one of the best gatherings of military sword collectors out there.

[Brian]

No problem with anonymity. Just always glad to hear the forum does have some use and helps buyers and sellers unite. I assume you got more than you planned, but also that the buyer got a decent deal.
Makes me glad to hear, thanks for the update.

[Kiipu]

@Stegel & @Shamsy Is that atypical for the Pattern 7 handle to be painted olive like that?

[Kolekt-To]

We knew those things would sell like Hot Cakes as my grandma used to say. Lol

[Stegel]

21 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Is that atypical for the Pattern 7 handle to be painted olive like that?

I'm sure you'll find the handle itself is not painted, they are usually raw wood or with a varnish coat. When used and worn they have a stained look to them.

The scabbards can vary in paint colour, from the OD green to brown, i have one in a grey also.

i have re-posted the first picture in the OP, with slight adjustment to colour and vibrance, you can see the handle is not painted.

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 9/15/2021 at 8:24 AM, Kolekt-To said:

We knew those things would sell like Hot Cakes as my grandma used to say. Lol

It's all about the right price, Fleebay has one for sale right now, actually, it was there a while ago, the seller took it down and put it up again, can't move for 3K. In most cases, he priced his Gunto a lot higher than the market price anyway.

[Kolekt-To]

I saw that one Trystan. Agree that it's priced too high.