A waste of time?

[kissakai]

Hi

Probably wasting my time but here goes.

I’ve just seen a post requesting info for a tsuba but the image is on an angle and not very clear.

I’m sure that some members bang out one or two images without looking at the results and hoping someone will respond. I never reply to these posts. Ideally for a tsuba please show both sides and one on the edge. Why not take a few images inside and outside in natural light also slightly differing angles may show up the mei better. No disrespect but taking images is not that difficult. Take a few and show the best.

 

Even better if you have a photo programme like paint shop pro to do a few tweaks. I size mine so the longest side is around 10”/250mm. When it is displayed on the NMB it is big enough to see detail but not too big for the screen (not sure about how it will view on a tablet or phone) or taking ages to open.

 

Here is an example of the difference you can make by putting in a bit more effort. With reasonable images you will get a much better response

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grev

[Frank B]

Night and day

[TETSUGENDO]

Good shots, Bushu ju Masakata, Edo......see how easy that was!

 

-S-

p.s.- from the signature, quality of workmanship, and gilding style, the maker would be the mid/later 19th century maker and not the 18th century one.

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

you point out a real problem. Sometimes I even feel it is impolite to throw out some blurred photos and nonetheless ask for identification help. The other side is that newcomers might believe that our experts can read everything, and in fact I am sometimes really surprised about what Raymond, Steve and others can still read out of these pictures. Another thing is of course that beginning collectors often do not know what might be important to show and in which way.

Perhaps it would be helpful to give some recommendations concerning the presentation of photos in the FAQ or another general place.   

[kissakai]

I think the title says it all but I felt it needed saying and I've got it off my chest

Who reads the Q&A's?

I just felt that images costs nothing so why not take a few photo's and delete the rest?

I may work if members on seeing rubbish images just reply with the link to this post

 

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and we will still have bad pictures

[vajo]

Hi Grev

I think it is not a good afford to link to this thread. It sounds like show better pictures or get out. The community lives from good and not so good pictures. Many good threads starts with very bad pictures. Where is the aha-moment if we see only high quality pictures of high quality pieces? Maybe I'm the only one who think so, but these are my thoughts reading the thread.

[Brian]

Here is the current post on uploading pics etc: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/3-how-to-uploadpost-a-pic-or-file-max-widths-sizes-etc/

If someone would like to update that, add info, and mention how to show good pics etc, I am happy to replace the text with new info and we can point people there.
I am just short of time, but it needs updating. Anyone care to take on the challenge?

[kissakai]

Chris I have to disagree

All I said was take a few photos and pick the best and it only takes seconds

I never mentioned 'high quality' pictures or items just please take a bit more time

I know my pictures of blades are rubbish but I try 

[Steves87]

Hello! on photos, I thought i might take the opportunity to test the waters a bit.

Ive been trying to get an acceptable personal standard of posting pictures.

Please can I have feedback (positive or negative) on below picture. Lighting, clarity and size of pic is what im trying to confirm.

 

 

Ive found diffused white light with a neutral background gets the closest to actual Tsuba colour. The Tsuba above is actually more of a chocolate colour for perspective. Edit: I can see my cropping may be no good.

I hope it is ok, i have posted this here. I can start a new threadif im out of line

[TETSUGENDO]

Grev,

 

I must disagree with your disagreement, Chris's statement is accurate.  Your initial remarks are documented , all anyone has to do is read them...so please no "gaslighting".  Your amended suggestion of selecting from multiple pictures is a good and  practical solution, so best leave it at that.

 

Cheers,

    -S-

p.s.- Steve, your picture is fine, perhaps a tad dark, but focused and clearly readable 

[raynor]

Outside of a professional setup nothing beats sunlight, the challenge is the angles and getting right focus. Here's a quick shot with sunlight through my window.

[kissakai]

Not who to disagree with at the  moment 

 

Steve K

Images are fine to me

If I can't get the colour right I state in the post the actual colour or whether it is darker or lighter

As before I like to show front, back and the edge

A close up of the mei is useful

[TETSUGENDO]

Grev,

 

We're in agreement, what you've outlined covers it all, if a certain area needs additional scrutiny a request can be made. Let's hope that these suggestions take hold here, it would make things easier for all concerned.

 

-S-

p.s.-thanks for the emoji, fun but unnecessary.

[CSM101]

  On 3/30/2019 at 5:31 PM, raynor said:

Outside of a professional setup nothing beats sunlight, the challenge is the angles and getting right focus. Here's a quick shot with sunlight through my window.

 

This is where I disagree. Sunlight is too bright.

 

In your photo you can see an area that is called in german "ausgefranste Lichter". No color, no details. And so I try to avoid sunlight. I work in the shadows. And so a quick shot of mine.

 

Uwe G.

[raynor]

I agree, those photos are better but I am also at fault. Currently live in Miami where the sun is a lot whiter then back home in Norway. I still think sunlight, probably not in the tropics, and a decent angle gets the job done bar a professional setup.

[TETSUGENDO]

Diffused daylight, or a light box would be a better choice, you could avoid the heavy shadows.  You can buy light boxes quite inexpensively.

 

-S-

[rkg]

Not meaning to threadjack Grev, but...

 

Uwe,

 

you can light pieces several ways depending on what you want/need to show, your artistic style, etc - and it usually ends up being a compromise on something - you end up with a blown out area because you need to show something/need the tradeoff because the light has to be in a certain position to show something else,etc - that's what makes shooting this stuff sooo much fun :-). 

 

While Omar's image could  maybe use some improvements (different placement of the camera/pieces to make the blowout smaller, probably some fill to complete the outline of the parts, etc) it does a nice job of revealing the surface of the piece (in that area at least).  And your use of light to reduce the dynamic range of the image like you've done is fine too - depends on what you want to show/your style...

 

 

And surprisingly, sometimes showing "everything" diminishes a piece  - a good example of this would be this image:

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/nio_comparison1.jpg

 

you might well see more "stuff" in the top image, but I don't think you understand the piece from it - I think I did a fair job showing the shape and depth of the primary subject so you can see the crazy effort they went to on it.  If you only got one (or two) shots, You have to decide what's important and work on that.... 

 

And sometimes the mei (or something else) adequately and the composition don't mix, and you end up suggesting adding more images the mei so its easy to read (as Grev did in his first post), the shape is obvious, etc.  That's why I do so many 360 images - for study it helps a lot to look at oblique angles, study the interplay of the light and surfaces, etc.

 

Enough rambling I'm sure nobody cares about..

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[kissakai]

No threadjack and some people care as there are 500 views!

I've just taken a load of images just for the mei

Loads of images with different light positions and camera angles

The extensive use of PSP as I do not need a good colour match just the kanji definition

Those with a basic photographic knowledge, try to think what you want to show with the final image

[CSM101]

This goes more off topic than expected. But I hope Grev and all the others will forgive me.

 

Dear George,

 

You are a lucky man! Because you had the chance to make some wonderful photos from the Umetada Misutada tsuba: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/b1014-kokusai-tosogu-kai-15th-international-convention-2019

 

I only had the chance for snapshots. Like the photographer in the photo. 5 shots, 4 blurrish. And if you have no chance to control the light you must go a different way.

That means retouching. Just the major steps...

 

Uwe G.

 

 

[vajo]

Great shots Uwe, as allways. I like your photography very much.

[rkg]

Uwe,

 

I didn't get to shoot the pieces out of Europe for the catalog. 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

EDIT: IMHO you got a pretty good shot of the Mitsutada piece :-).  Not sure whose color is right-er (diatribe on color management, metamerism, etc omitted), but the both may be because of lighting/exposure differences (another diatribe about exposure for fittings omitted).  When I shoot stuff like this at an event where I care, I'll usually throw down a colorchecker/white balance card in the same light and get a couple of shots of them there to help with color management, though often you can do "good enough" if somebody was kind enough to put something white by the piece to use.

FWIW, I'm reluctant to mention this since its kind of a philosophical thing, but I would suggest the following observations for you to consider on your edits of the image.  In the case of this piece, I feel that removing the spectral highlights removes some information that I personally want to see.  First, you lose some shape information.  Second, you lose the feeling of how "shiny" the piece is.  Also FWIW, I used to go to great lengths to remove all spectral highlights through very careful lighting (that often compromised detail, made surface colors "milky", etc), HDR imaging, etc, but eventually realized that going too far makes the pieces look different than they do in hand and/or you lose some of the "feeling" of the piece.  Since you typically only get an image or two to try and get across to a viewer what the piece is, it seems to boil down to what visual clues to leave and what to give up on to show something else.  I guess my "style" is to try and make the viewer have the same reaction to the image of the piece that they do to the piece in hand.

 

 

 

  On 4/5/2019 at 1:03 PM, CSM101 said:

This goes more off topic than expected. But I hope Grev and all the others will forgive me.

 

Dear George,

 

You are a lucky man! Because you had the chance to make some wonderful photos from the Umetada Misutada tsuba: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/b1014-kokusai-tosogu-kai-15th-international-convention-2019

 

I only had the chance for snapshots. Like the photographer in the photo. 5 shots, 4 blurrish. And if you have no chance to control the light you must go a different way.

That means retouching. Just the major steps...

 

Uwe G.