Kanemoto Wakizashi (lots of pics).

[Tavroch]

This is about the Kanemoto Wakizashi I purchased from Aoi-Art a while back (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3269).

Let me first of all say that it exceeds my expectations:

I'm still very much in love with the shape and there is a lot of features to study.

There's also a few things I have questions about.

So let me post some pictures and I invite you to comment on them:

 

First some pictures of the surface grain:

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be continued...

[Tavroch]

Here's some pictures of features that I'm worried about.

Which ones are considered flaws, and how serious are they?

 

Some scratches, only visible in the right light:

 

 

 

This looks like a tiny pocket of air (Fukure?):

 

 

Is this called Ware?:

 

 

To be continued...

[Tavroch]

A picture of the Mei:

 

 

This is the original description on Aoi-Art:

 

Wakizashi in Shirasaya

Signature: Kanemoto (NBTHK Hozon Paper)

 

 

The blade was polished .

Blade length : 35.8 cm or 14.09 inches.

Sori : 1.1 cm or 0.43 inches.

Mekugi: 2

Width at the hamachi : 3.2 cm or 1.25 inches.

Kasane : 0.6 cm or 0.23 inches.

Era : Late Muromachi period.

Shape : The blade is rather wide and thin sakizori style.

Jitetsu :Itame hada well grained with Jinie attach.

 

Hamon : Niedeki Sanbonsugi style.

 

 

Special feature : Early stage of the Kanemoto started Meio era and his son Magoroku Kanemoto is very famous sword smith.

There are several generations ,so it is difficult to distinguisg which generation this sword is.

But Kanemoto is well known sword smiths for cut well sword.

This sword is pretty healthy and recommend.

 

I was surprised to find this: http://www.users.on.net/~coxm/oshigata%20sword%20k35.html

Looks like my blade.

Here's the two Oshigata for comparison:

 

 

Looks like exactly the same blade to me.

Can it be that this Kanemoto was on Aoi-Art before?

What to think of this?

Questions arise: sandai or not?

What was the price it went for then?

Has anybody seen/bought/sold it before?

Maybe I should ask Tsuruta-san about this.

 

When it arrived it was completely dry;

I mean: there was not a trace of oil on the blade as far as I could tell.

I wiped it with uchiko once and the cloth turned a bit brownish.

Only a slight bit, mind you, but still.

It's oiled now of course.

 

The fact remains that I like the blade regardless.

But I would be very intersested in anything any of you'd have to say about this Kanemoto.

Additional pictures can be posted on request.

[Stever]

Is this called Ware?:

[attachment=0]7.jpg[/attachment]

 

Yes, looks like kitae ware (forging flaw/delamination).

 

I wonder, is that line at the machi a form of hagire? Maybe not as serious as a vertical one, but it looks like a crack to me.

 

Nice sword, though. I always like sunnobi tanto and/or hira wakizashi.

 

/steve

[Tavroch]

A worrying quote from http://www.users.on.net/~coxm/oshigata%20sword%20k35.html:

 

nakago: suriage, 2 mekugi-ana (one filled), okuri-machi

 

It being suriage or machi-okuri was discussed here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3269&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

And both mekugi-ana are open on my Kanemoto.

If the top one was once filled, the filling has been removed without a trace.

The patina looks about the same in both holes:

 

 

 

 

I don't know what to think.

Maybe I should indeed bring this to Tsuruta-san's attention.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

"Dear Mr. Jean LAPARRA,

Thank you very much for your mail.

 

We answered his question.

The wakizashi Kanemoto is very nice.

The Nakago of wakizashi Kanemoto is Ubu.

It was not moved up, not changed.

This is original.

 

Best regards

Kazushige Tsuruta

 

I think someone needs new eyeglasses

[Tavroch]

Yeah, well, I don't know about them eyeglasses.

What I'm really curious about is this: has this Kanemoto been on Aoi-Art before?

And if so; why was it described as being suriage then?

I put the question to Tsuruta-san just now.

Let's await his answer before jumping to conclusions please.

The arguments presented in the Dutch Iron post still stand i.m.o.

Do you see new evidence to support your opinion on it being suriage

apart from the remarks on the quoted page, Jacques?

In the new pictures posted by me here for example?

 

By the way: what do you think about the blade as such?

Apart from it being ubu or not.

[Jacques D.]

hi,

 

By the way: what do you think about the blade as such?

 

Please, forgive my frankness but i see a tired blade in a poor polish with awkward flaws. Far from a very nice blade.

[Tavroch]

I do appreciate your frankness Jacques.

Can I asked you to comment on the flaws you see and explain about their seriousness?

I think minor flaws and discussions like the one about it being ubu or not only add to the value it represents to me.

After all, this is a study project for me.

You think it is tired, for example: what makes you think that?

The hira-niku (?) is still fairly rounded, as you can see in some of the foto's;

isn't that an indication that it is not very tired yet?

And don't you think it's kind of intriguing that there seem to be two descriptions,

apparently both from Aoi-Art, that contradict eachother on the ubu or not question?

The outcome of this would have an impact value-wise of course, I'm aware of that.

I admit that the hadori polish is not very good; it is kind of vague on one side, for example.

I think a sashikomi polish would do more justice to this kind of hamon.

On the other hand: the hadori polish it's in does give it the kind of subtle flamboyancy I fell for initially,

and I don't know how old this polish is. Does anybody have any ideas on this?

Besides all that, I'm still very much in love with the overall shape (sugata?).

You obviously are not at all bothered by these kinds of feelings.

What kind of sword do you like Jacques?

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

What kind of sword do you like Jacques?

 

Something like this,

 

About ware all those which are in the hamon and in the yakiba are unenviable,

about tiredness, i can be wrong but the picture of the fukure seems showing loose hada and slight opening. Is it a big difference between the moto kasane and the nakago kasane?

[Brian]

Something like this,

Wow. Katakiriba & Kanmuriotoshi Zukuri. That is a sweet blade. Not to change the subject, but very interesting. Looks like 2 totally different swords from either side. Must have been made to show what the smith could do. Very unusual, I would grab it if I had the cash.

 

Ok..back to the sword at hand. I think there is a chance the sword is not tired, but just has some loose and open grain. But Jacques is correct that the ware in the hamon is disturbing. Polish is overdone a bit, but can be forgiven if it wasn't an expensive sword.

I am unsure if it is machi okuri. Looks like it is a bit, however not dramatically, and it shouldn't change your own opinion of the sword. No hagire that I see..just a continuation of that ware that isn't good to have in the hamon but might be not too deep. Close pics always make things seem worse than they are, but not a high level sword anyways. However I bet you didn't pay a high level price for it?

 

Brian

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

off topic on (sorry :? )

Wow. Katakiriba & Kanmuriotoshi Zukure. That is a sweet blade. Not to change the subject, but very interesting. Looks like 2 totally different swords from either side. Must have been made to show what the smith could do. Very unusual, I would grab it if I had the cash.

 

 

It is the second like this i see, it seems that is not an unusual zukuri for this smith.

 

Off topic off

 

Come back to the kanemoto,

 

Look at the picture "File comment: Grain." this is not a sign of a healthy blade, and also (i could be wrong) i seems the hamon is very weak i can't see the nioiguchi nowhere and there is absolutely zero nie (i am aware kanemoto made mostly nioi-deki but some ko nie must be present).

[Darcy]

Swords on Aoi Art from time to time have some liberal interpretations. There was one a few years back that the boshi on the sword and in the oshigata were completely different. Given his tremendous skill with oshigata it becomes difficult to believe it an error.

 

Aoi Art is kind of the scratch-n-dent special bargain house, sometimes you can find a really nice blade at a great price, much of the time there is something with it that makes it a bit harder to sell on the Japanese market.

 

About your sword here, it is machi-okuri in my opinion, if you put the habaki on it looks like the bottom of the hi is going to terminate somewhere in the middle of the habaki, instead of going below it or above it, and the position of the mei and mekugiana all point to that.

 

It's maybe a bit tired, but it's a koto blade and I personally don't think it's right to foster the concept that a blade has to be mint to be enjoyed. I've been surprised sometimes by Japanese reactions to swords that are no longer in their best state of health, and it looks to me that the reading is to see the sword as it was made rather than as it is now. I've seen this personally when putting swords down in front of Tanobe sensei, three very important Juyo Token and he gravitated to the one that was objectively in the least state of health and had an obvious flaw in it. This is the one he oohed and aahed over and talked about. Also, in my book at the end of the section on Ko-Bizen is an anecdote of a Japanese sword lover looking longingly over a worn down old Bizento.

 

The vast majority of even these recognizable examples are in greatly deteriorated condition. Nearly all of these have been polished down to a point where they retain only a hint of their former elegance. In many cases, the Boshi is incomplete or missing altogether. Many of the remaining blades have been burned or retempered. Even so, the desirability of such blades remains undiminished. The words of one elderly Japanese connoisseur while examining a blade with all of the above faults, are classic. He held the blade at arms length for a long time and turned, smiled and said, "But, it's Ko-Bizen."

 

Now this is not a Ko-Bizen but still... a Kanemoto :-).

 

I think 3rd generation, it shows the more regular and pointed sanbonsugi. If you take pictures with a non-frosted incandescent bulb and reflect them off the sword, shooting where the bulb hits just like you would be looking, it will light up the hamon better than what you've done.

[Guest reinhard]

I've been surprised sometimes by Japanese reactions to swords that are no longer in their best state of health, and it looks to me that the reading is to see the sword as it was made rather than as it is now.

 

I like this post a lot, for it is exemplary for what it is all about. A medieval sculpture made 1000 years ago doesn't need to compete with some stuff made by Damian Hirst or Jeff Koons as far as condition is concerned. The polychrome surface might be gone and worms might have destroyed some of its substance, but the magic is still there for those to see it. It is the same with NihonTo.

 

reinhard

[Ted Tenold]

Good points. About 8 years ago I examined a Magoroku Kanemoto Tanto. The nakago was ubu length and nijimei with three ana, two of which had been filled with lead. It was very very polished down but his classic soft sanbonsugi (gyoshotai styled) still remained with bo-utsuri. Papered to Tokubetsu Hozon......even though it had *no* boshi. The yakiba ran off the ha near the kissaki. Close examination revealed that the old and yet nice saya had been repaired to accomodate the tanto, so it had been with the blade since before the tip was broken off and the blade reshaped.

 

So the owner thought a great deal of the sword in that it didn't get discarded for what is commonly seen as a "fatal" flaw. Instead, it was repaired with care and consideration. The NBTHK papered it based on the merits of a sword by a highly regarded smith, verifiable by both the work that remained and a mei which were unquestionably his, earning it the judgement of "special preservation".

 

It was also conveyed to me that Magoroku tanto were somewhat a blade of choice for seppuku. Arguably, one might disregard this as a myth, but then there are wood block prints of samurai committing seppuku with a blade noted to be a Magoroku blade, and they are after all, at the top of the scale for sharpness ratings. . In 1970, writer Yukio Mishima committed suicide purportedly with a Magoroku blade (though apparently never recovered(?)). So the long esteem of Magoroku works is quite evident and this merit builds a high regard for any original examples, thus making condition issues secondary considerations.

 

The aforementioned Toku-Ho tanto was purchased on ebay and had been committed to a bench grinder. Nothing was visable in it. Fortunately, the nakago had been left alone and remained in excellent condition. A happy ending to an otherwise dismal result of a bone-headed act.

 

Just more food for thoughts.

[Tavroch]

Kasane measured just above mekugi-ana: 6.4mm,

measured about 6cm. above hamachi: 5.2mm.

I think that indeed qualifies it as being a bit tired.

By the way: where is the measure traditionally taken when a kasane is given?

Tsuruta-san admits it is machi-okuri now,

and on this page that I found it says "nakago: suriage, 2 mekugi-ana (one filled), okuri-machi".

So the Kanemoto is on its way back to Japan now (Tsuruta-san offered to take it back),

main reason being that if I knew about it what I know now, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

I have no problems apologizing to you now, Jacques, although I never said you were wrong in your suspicions.

Don't get me wrong: I still think it's a lovely blade,

but with al these issues surrounding it, it's not the right one for being my first Nihonto.

I don't mind, because this has been a great learning opportunity for me.

This leaves me free to keep my eyes open for my real first Nihonto.

I thank you all for your input on this.

[sabiji]

Don't get me wrong: I still think it's a lovely blade,

Where is the problem?

When you like this blade - fine - this is the most important point.

Okay, the Condition and the polish is not the best, and there are some little kizu.

But on the other site: this blade is typical for the jidai, this blade is typical for the school, this blade is signed, and this blade has a NBTHK HOZON Origami, so the blade is also shoshin. This blade passed arround 450 years. Mino blades in this periode are famous for there sharpness, this blades was made for use.

I can not believe that this Blade was very expensive, so i think this is a good blade for a Beginner, to be a first Nihonto.

When i remember, my first "Nihonto" before 18 years was a "ugly" unpolished Showa To.

[Tavroch]

I'm still curious: where is the measure traditionally taken when a kasane is given?

[Brian]

Rob,

Kasane would usually be the thickness of the blade at the machi (notches) and this is also called moto kasane. You also get saki kasane (measured at the monouchi (kissaki area)

The actual width of the blade is the haba...so moto-haba and saki-haba

 

Brian