Bishu Osafune Kanemitsu Tachi 1335 February

[nickm]

by .no means trying to hijack the thread as I know it's important to Peter but wondering about the green paper thing. I just bought a blade from Bob Benson which I have faith in and truly I do have faith in bob but of course it is being re submitted to shinsa through Bob with relative guarantees and currently has the green papers. What is the problem with the green papers? I understand they are not honored and it needs to be re submitted but is it not a good guide to go by?

[Jean]

Search the Forum Nick. This topic has been discussed at length hundred times.

[nickm]

Thanks jean. I did after posting. Have been guaranteed refund for any reason so heres hoping something good comes back

[Surfson]

Nick, many green papers, especially ones given to swords submitted by Americans in the 70s and never submitted since, are good.  Most (or nearly all or all) green papers on swords coming from Japan on ebay or buyee are fake.  If Bob is guaranteeing that this sword is going to paper, I suggest that you don't worry about it at all.  His word is good - if it doesn't paper, he will give you your money back.  

[nickm]

I am of the same opinion just always get scared when you read things on the Internet. Bob has taught me a lot in a relatively few email correspondences as to how to look at swords in general. I have no doubt he would steer me in the right direction But always appreciate the reassurance

[PNSSHOGUN]

Was there an update on this one by chance?

[Karusk]

I thought the old green papers were the culprits for worry not usually the white ones. Why forge a white paper when you can  more money from the green. Also your already committing fraud why stop at just authenticating a fake.  

 

[Kanenaga]

Just came across this reawakened old thread.  Can I be the first to have noticed that the signature on the blade and on the disputed green paper are different?

[SteveM]

The paper omits the 住, but otherwise its a match. The length and the date are a match, so it looks like just a clerical error.

[Blazeaglory]

The nakago looks way too new. Compare the nakago in the 2 different pics from the first OP and that is a huge red flag right there. 

 

Combined with everything else I hate to say that it's not authentic. Yes it is a real nihonto but I think Gimei

[Jacques]

A tachi made a year later (Osafune taikan) I still think gimei.

 

 

 

 

[Hoshi]

[Katsujinken]

Safe to say if it were shoshin we would know by now. 

[suketaka]

@Valric

----------------------------------------------------------------

  On 3/17/2019 at 2:46 PM, Valric said:

A word of caution: If you indeed know the dealer for fifteen years and you believe he has your best interest in mind, then assume it is misunderstanding: he assumes you know it is Gimei, but you like the sword. Sometimes in Japan things which are obviously needed in communication for westerners are left unsaid or merely left between the lines. It's easy for someone who has been dealing with swords for twenty years at a professional level to think that what is obvious to him is also obvious for you. 

Expand  

 

That´s it!

[Stefan]

Late green paper, worthless. Kanzan Sayagaki, looks strange. Mei, to many differences. Red Flag. By the way  the  shape is wrong and the nakago looks to young.

 

[Tom Darling]

Resubmitting,  may have different results, sometimes good papers turn out wrong and bad papers turn out right. Every shinsa has different opinions. Good luck.

[Rivkin]

The photographs are very poor but it seems the work is not typical for Kanemitsu.

Regarding the papers, with really major names one typically has to assume repapering green will yield something lesser. The problem is that with signed blades the lesser attribution is gimei. There are exceptions, mostly with blades that's been in the US for a while now etc.

This being said, I actually don't know if the nakago here is the one pictured in the papers or it was made recently to look the same way as in papers. Which is hard to do with newer papers which have actual photographs.