Chishiki Posted March 12, 2019 Report Posted March 12, 2019 Hi. I would appreciate if someone could please tell me the theme of this tsuba. I have had a look on the internet but cannot find it. Thanks Mark 1 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Posted March 13, 2019 Are those two little guys Shishi? Hi Steve, no they are not. First I thought they were Kappa but not confident. Someone here will nail it. 1 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Posted March 13, 2019 KAPPA and BENKEI? Hi Jean. i wondered that too but the fact he has a club and not a naginata made me unsure. Mark Quote
Bazza Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 The "club" is possibly a tetsubou, lit. "iron stick", a formidable weapon in the right hands. Maybe the little guys are Oni (tho' there is usually only one) and the armoured bloke is Shouki, but I don't think so as he doesn't have a ken. OTOH, the (maybe) tetsubo has an eye for hauling, like an anchor, which gels with the water. Which brings us back to the bloke in armour with piercing eyes. I have a figure like that on a tsuba where the figure is assigned to Nitta Yoshisada, so the water is either the sea or (maybe?) the Minatogawa river. A seemingly confusing jumble that someone will crack I'm sure... BaZZa. 1 Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 The figure with the two Kappa is possibly Rokusuke Keyamura, he is depicted in various guises including dressed as a Samurai. -S- 2 Quote
Alan Morton Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 BaZZa you should drink more Red 1 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Posted March 13, 2019 The figure with the two Kappa is possibly Rokusuke Keyamura, he is depicted in various guises including dressed as a Samurai. -S- Thanks Steve I feel we are getting close. There must be a samurai myth/legend where there is a meeting near water between kappa and a samurai or other mythical character. It would be nice to know what that myth is. Mark Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 Mark, Rokusuke Keyamura is often pictured with multiple Kappa. Pinning down an exact incident, if the attribution is correct, isn't something that can always be done......though it would certainly be nice. -S- Quote
Chishiki Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Posted March 13, 2019 Mark, Rokusuke Keyamura is often pictured with multiple Kappa. Pinning down an exact incident, if the attribution is correct, isn't something that can always be done......though it would certainly be nice. -S- Thanks Steve. I found this woodblock. I think the same situation as the tsuba although he is not wearing armour. Can anyone read the woodblock please. Regards Mark Quote
SteveM Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 Different theme. Here is an English description (may take a few seconds to load). https://www.mfa.org/collections/object/shirafuji-genta-from-the-series-ghost-stories-of-china-and-Japan-wakan-hyaku-monogatari-462309 1 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Posted March 13, 2019 Different theme. Here is an English description (may take a few seconds to load). https://www.mfa.org/collections/object/shirafuji-genta-from-the-series-ghost-stories-of-china-and-Japan-wakan-hyaku-monogatari-462309 Thanks Steve, I have attached the english description of the above woodblock (the link you kindly posted). Do you think the theme of the tsuba and the woodblock are completely different? Do you think it is Rokusuke Keyamura on the tsuba? I see the woobblock depicts Sirafuji Genta. Appreciate your opinion. At the end of the day it is not a big deal whether I get it solved or not. Japanese mythology is alien to me but I do like researching pieces I come by. Happy to put this thread to bed. Thanks everyone Mark Quote
SteveM Posted March 13, 2019 Report Posted March 13, 2019 I think the ukiyoe character (Shirafuji Genta) is a red herring. I have my doubts about Rokusuke Keyamura, because Rokusuke is a character from a late 18th century kabuki play, and we don't see a lot of kabuki themes on tsuba. Actually, everything I know about Rokusuke Keyamura comes to me from wikipedia, so I'm not an expert on this. The origins of the character are murky, so I would put this aside for now. The themes that we do see a lot of are scenes from Japanese and Chinese classic literature; Genji Monogatari, Heike Monogatari, Three Kingdoms, etc... so my inclination is to look there. The theme on the tsuba is a Japanese warrior by the sea (or river). So the water makes me think these are kappa. Nothing springs to mind, and nothing obvious comes up in a search. I also find the staff intriguing - it must be a clue, but it is lost on me. It reminds me of the shakujō (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakkhara) that monks carry, so I thought he might be Benkei, but I struggled to make the connection with kappa. The sword is a tachi, so again it reminds me of Heian times, and possibly something from Genji Monogatari. The flowers on the tree are another clue. They will point to a season, which will have some significance for the scene. Again nothing obvious jumps out at me. The figures could be something other than kappa, and we might be on a goose chase trying to find a samurai + kappa theme. I'll keep thinking. 1 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 14, 2019 Author Report Posted March 14, 2019 Thanks Steve and everyone else. I have a good base for further research. Mark Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted March 14, 2019 Report Posted March 14, 2019 Steve/Mark Shirafugi Genta does seem a "red herring" to me as well. As far as the Yokai in question, I can't see them as anything other than Kappa. I can't think of a classical reference that fits this depiction, none of the usual suspects seem to fit here (essential accoutrements are absent), unless there is some obscure story I'm unaware of. The "flowers" on the tree aren't, this is a classic stylized depiction of a pine tree, they are clusters of needles.....seasonal info it does not offer. So, we are left with many false starts and little concrete info to go on, curious to see where this all settles. -S- 2 Quote
Tigerinbamboo Posted March 17, 2019 Report Posted March 17, 2019 Hi, this links to a discussion of Rokusuke struggling with multiple kappa on a riverbank, Https://woodblockprints.org/index.php/Detail/Object_id/218 Quote
Tigerinbamboo Posted March 17, 2019 Report Posted March 17, 2019 Sorry, I'm new here. I collect mainly woodblocks and other art of women warriors, just newly learning about nihonto. Kathi D 1 Quote
SteveM Posted March 17, 2019 Report Posted March 17, 2019 Welcome Kathi! Sorry to say your link didn't work for me. I got an error message: "Invalid controller path". Maybe try again, or edit the link if the one in the post above is broken? Quote
Tigerinbamboo Posted March 17, 2019 Report Posted March 17, 2019 This should work: https://woodblockprints.org/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id/218 2 Quote
Chishiki Posted March 18, 2019 Author Report Posted March 18, 2019 I doubt this depicts or has anything to do about a struggle with the kappa. Looks like they are in discussion about something. Somewhere, somehow, someone will have the answer. Mark Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted March 18, 2019 Report Posted March 18, 2019 I doubt this depicts or has anything to do about a struggle with the kappa. Looks like they are in discussion about something. Somewhere, somehow, someone will have the answer. Mark Mark, it's almost always something about "a struggle with the kappa". -S- Quote
vajo Posted March 18, 2019 Report Posted March 18, 2019 Tsuba Motiv:Toranosuke tries to capture a kappa alive. Source: http://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/KulturalisAntropologia/kappa_monster.html 2 Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted March 18, 2019 Report Posted March 18, 2019 Chris, This is interesting stuff, I also came across this site in my travels and enjoyed reading it, as for the mummified remains of the Kappa.......P.T. Barnum would have approved! -S- Quote
Chishiki Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Posted March 19, 2019 Hi Chris. Very interesting site and good read. The samurai on the tsuba doesn’t appear to be trying to capture them, but it was interesting to read about the way kappa behave. They had capacity to help people and it seems the tsuba depicts kappa having meeting with the samurai. Thanks for the great link. Mark Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.