Type 32 Ko With Ishimeji Finish

[Mister Gunto]

Alternate thread title: "Baby, why you so Ko to me?"

 

I've been wanting to add a Type 32 sword to my collection for a while now. As a former US Army tanker, I really wanted to get a Ko for the Calvary connection. While the shorter Otsu versions appear fairly frequently on the marketplace, I find the Ko's are somewhat less so. And Ko's in nice condition don't seem to turn up much at all. 

 

I found this one very recently, and its in very nice condtion. It's in standard Ko configuration with the 32.5 inch Arsenal made blade, checkered wooden grip, leather finger loop and washer. The Scabbard is the correct Ko type and has original matching numbers to the blade. Grip is nice and tight (unlike a lot of former military sabers I've encountered).

 

There is an Arsenal stamping on the guard, as well as what I think are two inspector stamps. I believe that for a Type 32 made in the Showa era, they did not date these, unlike in the Meji and Taisho eras?

 

What makes this one a bit unusual are two things: The serial number is 84984, roughly 1600 digits higher than the highest Ko serial number of 83390 reported in Dawon's book on page 120. I'm guessing that's probably explained by the number reported in the book being more of an "observed" kind of thing, and not from an offical Japanese Military source?

 

The second is the scabbard is coated with a textured finish that I believe is called Ishimeji or Sand finish. (If I'm wrong on that, please correct me). While I've seen Ishimeji applied to Type 98 Officer's sword scabbards, I have never seen it put on a Type 32, or even a Type 95. My understanding is the Type 32 Ko wasn't issued to Officers, only NCO's and Troopers of the Calvary units. 

 

With the shortage of swords available to the IJA when they expanded the War in China in 1937, I've heard that many Warrant and Junior Officers had to scramble around to find suitable swords until the supply of Type 98's improved. Would it make sense for an Officer to have obtained this sword, and then paid to have it coated with the Ishimeji finish? That would have the effect of making the sword look more "uniform" to the Type 98's. And also a practical effect of toning down a bright shiny scabbard, espeically if the Officer wasn't in a Calvary unit. 

 

Do any of you have (or have seen) other Type 32 scabbards finished in something other than the usual bright, blue/black oxidized, or black paint? 

 

Anyway, here's pics!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mister Gunto]

A few more photos...

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Looks to have been done post war.

[Bruce Pennington]

I have never seen this before!

 

Beautiful Ko, by the way!

[Mister Gunto]

Thanks guys. The seller I bought it from usually deals with US and European 19th Century swords and sabers. He said he'd gotten this one in a lot he'd purchased. He'd initally thought the scabbard was rusted over, until he took a closer look. 

 

John, I'm going with it being a pre-1945 applied finish as the color and texture are consistant with a few similarly finished Type 98 scabbards I've seen. I have one special order wooden Type 98 scabbard that is nearly identical, just a little more green hued. So it seems to fit the period. It also shows some wear at the expected spots, like the scabbard throat, the locking pin attachment hole, and bottom of the drag, 

 

My understanding is many Type 32 arsenal refurbs were blued, similar to the finish applied to Arisaka rifles. Or just had a coat of black paint slapped on them. There doesn't seem to be a reason to apply a type of finish normally encountered on Type 98's, unless the user was an Officer himself who needed something that looked more like what all his fellow officer's were carrying. 

 

But of course, its been 70+ years since then, so I could be wrong.

 

Regardless, I'm really happy with it!

[zook]

I saw this one for sale and was curious about that finish on the scabbard ... I spent 90 min digging around and couldn't find a reference for that type of finish on the scabbard, but I admit it looks nice, and in beautiful condition.   Great addition to your collection!

[Mister Gunto]

Thanks! 

 

This, of course, means eventually I'll need to add an Otsu. 

 

Heh,  It never ends....

[Kiipu]

This is indeed the high number for a Type 32 Ko.  The early Type 32's were undated and the earliest dated example I know of is 明四三 (Otsu 75251).  I have never seen or heard of a Type 32 that is Showa dated.  The Showa era Type 32's have the Tokyo Arsenal mark upside down compared to the Meiji and Taisho era Type 32's. See page 125 of Swords of Imperial Japan,1868-1945, 2007, for an illustration.

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 8/26/2019 at 11:50 PM, Kiipu said:

 I have never seen or heard of a Type 32 that is Showa dated.  The Showa era Type 32's have the Tokyo Arsenal mark upside down compared to the Meiji and Taisho era Type 32's. See page 125 of Swords of Imperial Japan,1868-1945, 2007, for an illustration.

Never say never about the Japanese sword, here is your first Showa 昭貳（1926）dated 32 甲(83X33)。

 

 

[Shamsy]

Great find, Trystan! The numbers really don't mean that much as they seem to have been restamped quite a bit and there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern. Not sure how they kept track of it, frankly. I have a sword stamped in the hundreds. But I am 99% sure it is not that early. The markings are the true/accurate indicators of when the swords were made and therefore, if the serial numbers are reasonably accurate.

 

If anyone has any better info or anything really, I'd love to know. Info on 32s seems to be in fairly short supply.

[BANGBANGSAN]

6 hours ago, Shamsy said:

 they seem to have been restamped quite a bit 。  Info on 32s seems to be in fairly short supply.

Yes, there are many factory-reworked Type 32, that's why we saw minty ones from time to time,a lot more than Type 95.

[Kiipu]

Type 32 Guntō Kō 甲

甲 Overall Length with scabbard:  1000mm  39-3/8 inches.

甲 Blade Length:  832mm  32.75 inches.

 

Kō Date Ranges by Serial Numbers

Undated: 02158 to 44820.

Dated: 大四.三 76374 [1915 March] to 昭貮 83533 [1927].  In the early Taishō 大正 years, the month would follow after the year.  However, those made before and after will only have the year.

Undated: 84984 to 85224 [85224 highest observed serial number].

Edited March 8, 2023 by Kiipu

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Type 32 Guntō Kō 甲

甲 Overall Length with scabbard:  1000mm  39-3/8 inches.

甲 Blade Length:  832mm  32.75 inches.

 

Dates Ranges by Serial Numbers

02158 to 44820: Undated.

76374 大四.三 [1915 March] to 83X33 昭貮 [1927]: Dated. In the early Taishō 大正 years, the month would follow after the year.  However, those made before and after will only have the year.

84984 to 85224 [highest serial number reported]: Undated.

One of Type 32(91430) that I use to own, only has 大 一， no Month.

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

4 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Type 32 Guntō Kō 甲

甲 Overall Length with scabbard:  1000mm  39-3/8 inches.

甲 Blade Length:  832mm  32.75 inches.

 

Dates Ranges by Serial Numbers

02158 to 44820: Undated.

76374 大四.三 [1915 March] to 83X33 昭貮 [1927]: Dated. In the early Taishō 大正 years, the month would follow after the year.  However, those made before and after will only have the year.

84984 to 85224 [highest serial number reported]: Undated.

83533

 

[Bruce Pennington]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:22 PM, Mister Gunto said:

With the shortage of swords available to the IJA when they expanded the War in China in 1937, I've heard that many Warrant and Junior Officers had to scramble around to find suitable swords until the supply of Type 98's improved. Would it make sense for an Officer to have obtained this sword, and then paid to have it coated with the Ishimeji finish? That would have the effect of making the sword look more "uniform" to the Type 98's. And also a practical effect of toning down a bright shiny scabbard, espeically if the Officer wasn't in a Calvary uni

To return to this topic, a bit, it is an interesting possibility. I’m not familiar with modern paint work, and don’t know if this is a paint style that is easily done today. I haven’t seen it before on modern stuff. But that I don’t follow paint-world. And I guess my only problem with it being a wartime paint job is from your pictures, I don’t see any wear and tear. If it had been done early in the war, because of the shortage, I would expect to see lots of wear and tear on the paint. Factory paint on tape 95s, we see a lot of wear on the hanger ring and the areas that it contacts on the Haikan.  Plus there should be a lot of wear on the bottom few inches of the scabbard at least.

[Bruce Pennington]

BTW really nice looking blade!  Be careful with the leather loop, I broke mine sticking my finger in it a few too many times!

[John C]

I'm not saying this is the case here. But in terms of textured paint, I have used this product in the past to get similar results. Not sure how long it has been around, though.

John C.

[Mister Gunto]

At this point, I'm leaning towards it being a modern repaint. I have seen original Type 98's scabbards with a textured finish, but modern is probably the safer guess. At least until when/if other examples show up.