Mantetsu Mei Question

[Bruce Pennington]

Mantetsu blades made in '43 and '44 were: 満鉄鍛造之

 

I've been told it means Mantetsu forged this. But one site I read, with the angle that Mantetsu taught the Nanman (Mukden) factory to make blades the Mantetsu way, proposed it means more: "Forged the Mantetsu way".

 

Ohmura had speculated that Mantetsu taught the arsenal to make blades and that the "Ren" and "Nan" stamps were from the Nanman Arsenal. If the mei could be read the alternate way, this may support the idea that blades with this mei were from the Nanman arsenal. We know that in '43, the Mantetsu factory was ordered to supply several thousand "unfinished" blades to the Tokyo arsenal, so there seems a possibility that this was done for Nanman too, but I'm looking for any possible corroberation of this.

 

What say you?

[Bruce Pennington]

Okaaaayyy. Just found a '44 Mantetsu with Ren stamp AND a "W" stamp! With the current understanding that the unfinished blades sent to Tokyo Arsenal recieved the W stamp, that throws out the idea that the Ren stamp came from the Nanman Arsenal. Of the two theories, the W theory at least has single piece of evidence pointing to it, sooooo ... back to square 1 on the Nan and Ren stamps.

[SteveM]

If I'm not mistaken, 満鉄鍛造之 means "Forged and made with mantetsu steel"

満鉄でこれを鍛えて造った

Mantetsu in this sentence is a noun referring to the steel, and not a pronoun representing the company. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Steve! That would open the possibility of Ohmura's theory being true.

 

Since my last posting, I've reviewed my data to date, and have 3 '43s with Koa Isshin and 2 '44s with Koa Isshin. It would beg the question of "why would SMR Mantetsu be making blades with 2 different mei?" Of could Ohmura be right and the Koa's were from Mantetsu and the non-koa with Nan/Ren are from Nanman?

[IJASWORDS]

Pictured is a 1944, with Ren stamp and the unknown rail stamp, how does this fit the mystery? 

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil,

 

The true answer is "Who knows@!#!?" But, personally, I'm going with - it's a "tip-o'the-hat" to the SMR factory. By removing the circular "M"around the rail, it could indicate this was NOT made at Mantetsu, but made in the Mantetsu-way. But a sample of 1 is obviously way too little to go on (though, it does add to the Nan/Ren evidence).

 

Thanks for the post!

[Kiipu]

If I'm not mistaken, 満鉄鍛造之 means "Forged and made with mantetsu steel"

満鉄でこれを鍛えて造った

Mantetsu in this sentence is a noun referring to the steel, and not a pronoun representing the company. 

 

I think in this case, 満鐵 is an abbreviation for 南満洲鉄道株式会社 Minamimanshū Tetsudō Kabushiki Kaisha [south Manchuria Railway Company (SMR)].

 

My translation of 満鐵鍛造之 would be "SMR forged this".

満鐵鍛造之 = Mantetsu tanzō kore (literal or Chinese reading) = South Manchuria Railway Company (SMR) forged this.

鐵 = 鉄.

 

"South Manchuria Railway"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Manchuria_Railway

[SteveM]

Agree with the above. Strike my earlier translation and replace with the above. 

[Kiipu]

Below are the dictionary references for 満鉄 Mantetsu.  The 1974 edition of Kenkyusha's considered the word obsolete, probably because SMR no longer existed.

 

Kenkyusha's New Japanese-English Dictionary, 4th edition, 1974

Mantetsu 満鉄 n. ((o))  [鉄道] the South Manchuria Railway ; [会社] the South Manchuria Railway Company.

((o)) < Obsolete

 

The New Nelson, 1997

満鉄 Mantetsu South Manchurian Railway