Bizen Yokoyama Sukeyoshi (?) on eBay

[Marius]

Dear All,

 

as I am the owner of what seems like a Bizen Yokoyama sword, I am interested in every example of this particular school. I have come across this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-in-m ... dZViewItem

 

The pictures are probably not enough to judge this sword, but I would be delighted to learn your opinion. Is this a Bizen Yokoyama or not?

[Jean]

Is this a Bizen Yokoyama or not?

 

Mariusz, this question makes me think you are doubting

 

I don't know, but were it shoshin, I would not buy it because it is not representative of this school, atypical hamon, too regular gunome hamon.

[Marius]

Jean,

 

many thanks, just wanted to have a confirmation that this hamon is not typical for the Bizen Yokoyama school. Due to the quality of the pics, it is hard to judge anything besides this. The sword has yakidashi and this unusual hamon. How about the signature? Is it worth a closer look?

 

Should anybody have any swords of this school, pics would be greatly appreciated.

[Jean]

Hi Mariusz,

 

A few links

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/info/sukekane.htm

 

http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito4.htm

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Yokoyama_Sukekane.html

 

http://www.to-ken.com/swordregister/no37.htm

 

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread ... nextnewest

 

http://www.sanmei.com/shop_e/media/T310 ... _PUP_E.htm

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swo ... hi/sw9.htm

Unusual one sanbonsugi

 

Take care

[DSweet]

I am days late on this post, but figured it worth posting my opinion. Just in case it goes back up for sale.

If i had ebay from work, i probably would have replied 3 days ago.

 

The first thing that tipped me off here was the fact that the seller wrote "Tomonari 58th genaration". One could easily follow the link that Jean posted below from Nihontocraft, and tell that the mei here is all wrong. Being that i have that wakizashi i can say that Sukekane's work is well above what is(was) displayed on that ebay auction. As i have only seen a handful of other work by this smith, i could be missing lots of information.

 

First opinions: The mei is incorrect (opinion based from comparison, cause i cannot read mei), the hamon looks suspect, and the hada looks muji. Of course it could be due to bad pictures... But my gut says this is a rip off.

 

-Donovan

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Sorry Mariuszk but i've found nothing about Sukeyoshi himself, but this kind of hamon seems not so uncommon in Yokoyama school.

[Nobody]

The first thing that tipped me off here was the fact that the seller wrote "Tomonari 58th genaration". One could easily follow the link that Jean posted below from Nihontocraft, and tell that the mei here is all wrong. Being that i have that wakizashi i can say that Sukekane's work is well above what is(was) displayed on that ebay auction. As i have only seen a handful of other work by this smith, i could be missing lots of information.

Both Sukekane (ç¥åŒ…) and Sukeyoshi (ç¥ç¾©) added “Tomonari 58th generation†to their signatures.

Ref.: p. 294, The Connoisseur’s Book of Japanese Swords

 

Though I do not say that the mei is genuine, the inscription is not strange.

[Yoshii]

Hello out there,

 

It is my hobby to collect information on swordsmiths and put it in little booklets.

This I have also done on the Bizen Yokoyama school.

Yokoyama Sukeyoshi is mentioned in the Nipponto Bizen-den Taikan on page 699.

 

He was working in nioi deki and made choji, choji midare and suguha hamon.

His kitae is mostly ko mokume, the boshi most of the time is ko maru kaeru.

 

He signed as follows Jakushu jū Mita gennoshin Taira sukeyoshi

yoshida gennoshin Taira sukeyoshi

Goshu Hikone jū sukeyoshi

Goshu Mita gensuke sukeyoshi

tomonari go jū hachi dai no mago (58th generation)

Bizen Osafune jū Yokoyama Sukeyoshi zukuri kore

 

I hope this will help a little bit

Greetings Jos

[DSweet]

Thank you Nobody, and Jos. I rather enjoy being incorrect, typically it means that i am learing something. I try to rarely speak/write in absolutes as i am still 3 years new to these subjects.

 

I do wish i had more examples, and references of the later Yokoyama works. I have found a few, but you can never have enough IMHO.

 

-Donovan

[Mark]

I have a Sukemune katana (34") that is a custom order and is signed 58Th Gen Tomonari

[Stephen]

sounds like a good show and tell Mark, if you have the time.

[Mushin]

Ok, so I have a question: looking at this offering, and the one in Jacques’ oshigata. as well as the sanbongsugi on the Shinshinto Sukesada and the straight hamon here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3408

I am wondering if there’s such a thing as a typical Yokoyama school hamon? I understand that the school specialized in choji midare of crowded blossoms and featured yakidashi in the hamon, but am I wrong to assume that Yokoyama smiths experimented with lots of hamon styles? Were these perhaps made to different clients orders?

Thanks,

Bobby

[DSweet]

I would say that it is completely safe to say that they experimented on other styles. From what i find the typical for the yokoyama school is going to be choji gunome midare. But i have found several examples of the later generations working in other hamon styles. I make an assumption here, but the time period probably plays a major part in the "experimentation". On Danny's page he makes mention that

"There was a great feeling of "reviving the old" in Bakumatsu times and this admiration of ko-Bizen Tomonari is a reflection of that."

I beleive i put this link in a previous post. But i will post it here for ez reference.

 

http://www.japanesesword.de/menue/schwerter/002/002.html

 

as a side note. Any and all references for later Yokoyama smiths would be much appreciated.

 

-Donovan

[Marius]

Well, since I have started this thread by indicating that I have a Yokoyama Sukenaga sword, let me publish a few pics showing the mei and hamon of Sukenaga. Two of them show the mei on my sword (as always, I suspect it is gimei) Two are from the Compton collection catalogue, showing also the hamon. One is an oshigata, I have got from one of the NMB members.

 

The pics are here: http://gallery.me.com/mariuszk/100016

 

If you have any others showing Yokoyama Sukenaga or any other Yokoyama swordsmiths, feel free to upload them to this page.

[Brian]

Little tip I found recently is to do a Google image search instead of a normal Google one.

It pulls up images that link to pages sometimes we miss on a regular search.

Using it, amongst others I found this one: http://www.japanesesword.de/menue/schwe ... 1/001.html

Give it a try: http://images.google.com/

Pulls up: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... ages&gbv=2

 

Regards,

Brian

[DSweet]

http://www.japanesesword.de/menue/schwe ... 1/001.html

This is absolutely beautiful. I really need to hit the lottery or something.....

 

-Donovan

[Marius]

http://www.japanesesword.de/menue/schwerter/001/001.html

This is absolutely beautiful. I really need to hit the lottery or something.....

 

What a sword! Thanks for posting that one :-) I just wonder if Sukenaga was also producing the kind of hamon you can see in my gallery here (first pic):

http://gallery.me.com/mariuszk#100016

 

It does not really seem choji midare, rather gunome midare? I have bought this particular sword presuming it is gimei (no papers, great mei), I just liked it. The mei on this sword is shown in two pics named my_nakago...

 

What is your opinion?

[DSweet]

*just downloaded Firefox at work (for the 2nd time)* Even being IT, we get yelled at for using it.....

 

I really like your sword. I do not have the time, nor resources here at work to compare the mei, but at first look it appears to be well chiseled. Hopefully the more experienced can chime in here about this.

 

The hamon does appear to have some choji midare within the gunome, probably a bit easier to tell with it in hand.

 

I am really drooling over this. I envy you. This is the Sukekane i recently purchased. I believe it belonged to a NMB member, but i do not know who.

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Yokoyama_Sukekane.html

 

-Donovan

[Marius]

I am really drooling over this. I envy you. This is the Sukekane i recently purchased. I believe it belonged to a NMB member, but i do not know who.

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Yokoyama_Sukekane.html

 

 

Donovan,

 

who is to envy whom? Congratulations on your sword! It has attractive choji, nice hada, and it is papered. Nice koshirae is a bonus. Worth every penny :-)

 

My "Sukenaga" must be gimei, it has been bought from a Japanese dealer. With Sukenaga being a jo saku smith, any chance it was authentic, it would have been papered and sold four times the price I paid. The Japanses tend to sell us gaijins mostly items the market in Japan sees as inferior (e.g. gimei).