March 2019 Tampa Shinsa Reminder

[Pete Klein]

https://nihontoantiques.com/nthk-shinsa-2019/

[Blazeaglory]

Good to know...Do they ever come to Southern CA?

[Pete Klein]

Dwain - no.  San Fran show from time to time as well as Chicago and other shows.

 

The shinsa are coordinated with the shows as they are mutually beneficial for attendance.  This actually brings up a concern of mine (and others) that with declining attendance to the shows the day may come that they may close then the shinsa may very well cease to occur here in the USA also.  Food for thought.

[Ooitame]

Just reserved my spot on Saturday, hope to see some of you there.

[raynor]

I wont be able to attend the Tampa show but I am submitting a blade to Shinsa there for the first time. I am told that sending in just the blade wrapped in plastic and newspaper is enough, but in my head it seems natural to send it in its shirasaya unless anyone has advice against it?

Also should I send it with original habaki or the tsunagi wood habaki for shirasaya fit, so I dont risk loosing the original?

 

Its my first time letting others handle my stuff without me present, and having not attended a shinsa or US sword show I have no idea what to expect. Any safety or beginner tips?

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Omar,

I am very surprised if it was the shinsa team that told you to ship them the bare blade.  The blade without its shira-saya is vulnerable to damage, both in the mail and during the time between receiving and returning to you.  The hour or so the blade is bare for shinsa is a necessary risk but to take the chance of damage with numerous blades over numerous days seems foolish.  You are paying them for the service: receiving, storing, submitting through shinsa, and returning; keeping track of the parts (including the real habaki) during shinsa isn't much to expect from them.

If it wasn't the shinsa team that told you to ship bare, then never mind.  If it was, I think someone with the team needs to point out where I'm mistaken.

Grey  ps.  If you do ship the blade bare, make sure you know proper technique.

[raynor]

Hi Grey,

 

To clarify I was told shipping blades like that with extra care to package kissaki is "sufficient" by the people handling the mail in submissions, not the shinsa team.

 

Obviously I am going to ship in shirasaya since I have that option.. real or wood habaki remains to be seen, apparently replacing a work hardened copper one is hundreds of dollars.

 

I was just imagining myself asking people to ship valuable swords somewhere, for both the blades and anyone at usps' sake I would have at least also mentioned bubble wrap and a proper tight container. Sure it is a given but then again cups have to state the coffee might be hot.

[Soshin]

I am going to the show and will be participating in the shinsa. 

[raynor]

Anyone mind dripping some details and tidbits from the Shinsa here the next few days? I am unable to attend in Tampa this year but would like to know how it goes. Extra exciting as I've got a katana submitted through the mail in service.

[Curran]

Anyone mind dripping some details and tidbits from the Shinsa here the next few days?

 

What details and tidbits do you mean?  When the NTHK shinsa were held in NYC-NJ, I twice served as check-out clerk / records accountant and can comment on questions about the process.

Though local to Tampa, I will not be part of this shinsa. Even clerking the shinsa is a pretty hectic 3 days of work.

[raynor]

Personally I've never attended a Shinsa before. So I'd like to know things like at what blinding speed do they go through items? Are worksheets or results put up in public? What is the rough pass percentage, more tosogu versus blades submitted, etc.

 

(How many people politely shown the door this time claiming they have the Honjo)

 

Pretty much anything that might be of interest

[TheGermanBastard]

Approx 1 - 5 Minutes per item. NPO maybe more, Yoshikawa maybe less.

[Curran]

The years I clerked, there were about 1.75 blades coming through to every fitting coming through. FromThis was 10 to 15 years ago. That has probably dropped, as [big thanks to Bob Haynes and his Index, plus the HUGE asset that Mr. Markus Sesko has been] many more english texts on fittings have become available and the number of dedicated American, European, Chinese and Russian fittings collectors has climbed.

 

I believe the NTHK shares the number of items through and the pass rate, or at least it was made public in the New York Club. Given the traveling nature of the NTHK shinsa, they are conservative. From personal experience, I've run quite a number of mumei things through NTHK shinsa to see how they would paper differently than the NBTHK H and TH papers I had in the drawer. At least two of them were 'pinked' (been bounced), but otherwise the NBTHK and NTHK results were very similar.

 

When it comes to the the traveling NTHK shinsa like the current one, I feel the NTHK is a bit more conservative on papering fittings than the NBTHK or NPO group. On the positive, you will get a lot more information on your fittings worksheet than you will get from the NBTHK.

[raynor]

Regarding the worksheets, are they normally provided for absent people with items submitted through middlemen, or should I ask for it?

[seattle1]

Hello:

Having just gotten home from Tampa and having had a couple of hours to observe the shinsa process in action, particularly the returning stage I can say for sure that the pass rate reflected sincere opinions and careful study by the team. Failure papers are salmon in color and there were a fair number of them coming through. A friend of mine got six for six and that is probably the only multi blade perfect score. A lot of care was taken with everything and the points awarded were on average quite low reflecting little extra reach to make anyone happy.

Arnold F.

[charlie1]

I was batting .500 this shinsa and I feel fortune compared with some other people I talked with.

 

Charlie

[seattle1]

Hello:

I should have specified that my friend got six for six passes, hence the talk about interest.

Arnold F.

[raynor]

afaik failure means no paper at all and the pink ones are considered genuine works?

[Vermithrax16]

How many blades were submitted? Always blows my mind how many get sent every shinsa here or in Japan.

[Curran]

Pink sheets indicate failure.

 

I believe the fellow with the 6 for 6 had some nice blades for sale. I was most interested in one of the tanto.

Ironic how it fell through, but at least the fittings side of the show was enjoyable.

[Ooitame]

Looking back on it now, when I picked mine up there was a stack of sheets with the pink slip stapled to the bottom. Would be interesting to see the p/f ratio. Yes this event had a good amount of fittings. Also quite a few tanto. This one although not for sale was a highlight.

[seattle1]

Hello:

No Raynor, there were two paper types, salmon color for failed and plain white for passed and those papers gave quite a lot of information. I have been to many shinsa and in the old days we were commandered into doing the oshigata of the nakago. The point averages in Tampa were low, closer to the old days of Yoshikawa Koen, but if you got a paper you can be pretty sure it is right if signed and in the ballpark if mu mei,

Arnold F.

[seattle1]

Hello Curran:

Yes the fellow with the 6 for 6 did have some nice stuff including a nice tanto by Miyamoto Kanenori who would later become a pre-war Living National Treasure (there were only two, Kanenori and Sadakazu), and he got a 8th Gen. Tadayoshi papered, that smith being much elevated in appreciation in recent years and considered on the same footing as some of the early shinto era Hizen.

Arnold F.

[Ray Singer]

That same seller had a wonderful Mino Kaneuji which a good friend purchased (with my encouragement). I loved the Hiromasa tanto he had almost as much as the Kaneuji. The Naotsuna naginatanaoshi was quite special, and was an additional seventh submission that he made at the end of the weekend (and which did pass as Sekishu Naotsuna).

[Vermithrax16]

With every shinsa session I do wonder where the heck are the works I am most interested in. Someone find some!

[Curran]

 I loved the Hiromasa tanto he had almost as much as the Kaneuji. The Naotsuna naginatanaoshi was quite special, and was an additional seventh submission that he made at the end of the weekend (and which did pass as Sekishu Naotsuna).

 

That tanto was the one.

I am more interested in fine tanto these days. It was my very serious consideration to sell my last sword and buy it.

I looked at the Naotsuna and did not enjoy it as much. Still, a big name and the NTHK does not paper such unless confident.

 

Lesson learned about NTHK shinsa:

I hoped for a different call on a blade I had with suriage, and instead ended up with two sets of NTHK papers to the same line of Omiya Bizen smiths. First set Yoshikawa Koen era, and second set Yoshikawa Eiichi era. I guess they were pretty confident it was Omiya Bizen and not the Oei Bizen smith I thought it was by.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Thank you for sharing these tidbits from the show for those unable to attend.

Pics would be much appreciated as well.

 

On this note would like to add that even today I greatly miss the shinsa reports that Allan H. Pressley used to write up following these events. Which always offered statistical data and wonderful little insights.

[raynor]

Yes thank you all for the info. Does anyone know if results will be available somewhere?

 

I submitted a blade and imagine there is a lot of work to be done by the organizers before mail in results are sent out. Mainly I wish to know if I'll get any worksheet later if it passed or if I should ask for it now after the event.

[seattle1]

Hi Curran:

Well that tanto by Kanenori is quite special and I considered it too. The through and through ken sukashi is most unusual, but really the most noteworthy thing is that Kanenori is perhaps the only smith who worked continuously from shinshinto when the tanto was made and dated, to Taisho and at the highest level of execution.

Arnold F.

[Ray Singer]

I was confused by the Tadayoshi when it was given to me described as hachidai Hizen Tadayoshi (忠義 is not a mei used by the Hizen mainline). I believe that this is the smith for the sword David had.

 

駿州助宗六代藤原忠義 (Tadayoshi, 6th generation of Sukemune)

https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/TAD315

 

There was an additional reference to Tadahiro on the nakago as well. I wish that I had taken a photo of the mei.

 

 

 

Yes the fellow with the 6 for 6 did have some nice stuff including a nice tanto by Miyamoto Kanenori who would later become a pre-war Living National Treasure (there were only two, Kanenori and Sadakazu), and he got a 8th Gen. Tadayoshi papered, that smith being much elevated in appreciation in recent years and considered on the same footing as some of the early shinto era Hizen.