Wanted: Katana Habaki

[ChrisW]

Hey all!

 

I have a supposed Kotō-era katana for which I am searching for a fitting habaki. I need one with interior dimensions of 24.8mm at the back of the mune and ha-machi, 6.8mm wide where the shinogi lay (about 9.66mm from the munemachi.) I would prefer a silver-foiled one, but really anything decently attractive that would go with it would be great. I've attached a picture of the area below.

 

 

Thanks!

 

~Chris

[Geraint]

Dear Chris.

 

This is going to be a thankless task for you I fear.  Even given accurate dimensions the chances of you buying a habaki that will really fit are very slim.  If you want to have one that will fit both blade and saya then your chances fall even further.  It's a bit like shoes, you might mail order a size 10 but they don't  necessarily fit when you get them.  There are craftsmen in the US who will be able to make one to fit your blade which is what you really need.  

 

There are an awful lot of swords around which have been assembled from bits and pieces and they are never very satisfactory in contrast to a properly made koshirae where everything fits properly and feels just right.  I think you would find it a much better result to have the habaki made properly in the long run.

 

Do let us know how it goes.

 

All the best.

[Blazeaglory]

I agree with Geraint. Even if the basic measurements seem to match, it's a pain trying to fit a "aftermarket" habaki to a blade. For instance, this one I'm showing you was sure to fit one of my blades. I measured and everything but I couldn't get it to fit. It was too big at the end.

 

So with that said, I have one but its a double gold. Gold is light and looks silver in low light but in good light it's a nice gold color. Some blemish but overall in good condition.

 

If you're interested, send me a PM and we'll talk further.

 

$60 with free shipping (North America only please)

 

Width x height:

33.3 x 22.6

 

Internal dimensions are:

25mm mune to ha

6.3mm thickness

 

External dimensions:

33.3 mune to ha

11.8 thickness

[paulb]

Chris

The habaki plays an extremely importnat role in holding the sword in either shirasaya or saya. Normally a habaki is made prior to a blade being polished. Not only is it almost impossible to find an existing habaki to fit a blade properly it is bad practice as unless the fit is absolutely right it will cause problems down the road.

I would strongly recommend having one made, it will be a lot more cost effective (and easier) in the long run

[Bazza]

Chris

The habaki plays an extremely importnat role in holding the sword in either shirasaya or saya. Normally a habaki is made prior to a blade being polished. Not only is it almost impossible to find an existing habaki to fit a blade properly it is bad practice as unless the fit is absolutely right it will cause problems down the road.

I would strongly recommend having one made, it will be a lot more cost effective (and easier) in the long run

Paul,

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the habaki is made when shitaji is completed and then blade and habaki go to the shirasaya artisan.

 

BaZZa.

[paulb]

Hi Bazza

Yes I think you are right, sorry I cant honestly remember the sequence. However I think the point is they are custom made for the particular sword and the fit to both blade and saya crucial.

[Ted Tenold]

Generally the habaki is made after the blade is polished through around kaisei or chu-nagura, then goes to the sayashi.  However there is the rare exception that a habaki is made for a polished sword (hopefully by a skilled and careful shiroganeshi), and I have, in the past had them made for a sword and to fit an existing shirasaya or koshirae when either of those are particularly special and/or important, but it's not cheap, nor is it optimal.

 

A used or reproduction habaki will invariably have some kind of deficiency in proper fit and/or dimension that will make it look awkward, prevent proper fit and alignment of the nakago ana in the tsuka, and can even damage the sword.  

 

One can expect to pay about $500-$600 dollars for a well made, properly fitted, and nicely finished copper habaki.   Between the cost of buying a used one, the time to find one that fits, and the risk of the damage, it's prudent to consider the costs the risk of damage bring for a cheaper habaki.

[ChrisW]

I am fully aware of all these facts. I am trying to find one that is slightly too small, and using my skills with handtools and fitting it myself. A wartime one would be perfect for this purpose as they are generally pretty beefy and can withstand some filing down. I am looking for one within a few MM tolerance that would be simple to fit.

 

I know the idea of filing a habaki seems abhorrent to many of you, but simply stated: the habaki has little worth without a blade its fitted to. Go look on eBay, you can buy them by the dozens in a lot here and there. I need a proper habaki so I can use my tools and make a proper shirasaya to store this blade so it will last a few more generations hopefully. A good habaki is integral to the shirasaya doing its job well.

 

 

Why a blade is ever parted from its habaki is beyond me, I can only see it being catastrophically damaged in some way as a reason for doing so. Mercy on the soul who did so to this lovely blade.

[Geraint]

Dear Chris.

 

In the situation you are in then another option might be to have an integral habaki with the shirasaya or even a separate wooden one.  Personally not my thing but it works for others.

 

All the best.

[ChrisW]

Can you show me or link me to one? I might consider one, I just want to find a way to store this blade properly. Thanks!

[Geraint]

Hi Chris,

 

An integral habaki, 

From japanesesword.com

 

And a separate wooden habaki,   https://nihontoantiques.com/project/wakazashi-sword-fss-715-3/

 

Hope this helps.

 

All the best.

[parfaitelumiere]

it can be possible to make a cast of your blade area, using lets tell,  2 components silicon paste, this will provide a way to get a casting of the area from pu resin, then it can be a way to make a habaki fitting PU resin wothout shipping the blade via posts, the best would be to get a few centimeters of the tang, and a few centimeters of the blade.
Providing motohaba, motokasane, hamachi and munemchi is not enough, because the shinogi height ratio, the ji shape and curvature, the exact position of both machi can vary even providing same measurments.
it can be possible to modify existing habaki for a blade, but it's very difficult.
Making a new one on existing polished blade is also a tricky operation because it can bring damages, this is why I am thinking about csting the tang and first blade centimeters, it can provide a blade replica that doesn't fear to be damaged
I see you also have the saya, meaning a cast of the saya along 3cm or more would be required too.
I may be able to make a habaki if you provide the casting, kinkise, I can't, brass or copper, I can, using a thick layer, forging etc, not so hard to make.
The shape copy process is used everyday for dental repair, so it could be used for Japanese sword market.

[b.hennick]

Scan and print with a 3D printer would also work,

[parfaitelumiere]

not as good, 3D printer has many defects especially scanning, I remember at the dental workshop I was, we had many issues with the technology.
However, a katana blade will bring less issues than dental work, too much gap won't bring so much issues and too stiff fit and required pressure won't make the teeth explode, so 3D printing can be another way, even a 2 components silicone is much cheaper than a 3D scanner.

[ChrisW]

Though the saya is damaged, it's still serviceable. I'd have to send it out to have some cracks repaired. I could have a cast of the area made and sent out to you. If you were to make a new habaki, how much would you charge having a cast in hand?

[parfaitelumiere]

I sent you email.
Price, depending on time it takes, probably about 100 to 150$.
If you already have the tsuka and fittings, make a measurment of distance from hamachi to seppa, when all fitting are in place.
If you only have blade and saya, you still have the choice, depending on thickness of various elements, but it would be better to get mekugi hole on first losange on ura side, this is my taste and it seems to be the most common choice.
the distance between mekugi ana and hamachi looks quite short, meaning quite short habaki and short fuchi too.

[TETSUGENDO]

A traditionally made habaki is work-hardened,  a cast one, or 3D printed one is not, it will not function properly.  If you are simply looking for a spacer you may as well try converting an existing one....the aesthetics are likely to be better as well.

 

-S-