Help/advice With A Potential Purchase

[Gakusee]

Jussi best me to it. Happens when I watch films and try to multitask ..... they all had very similar signatures and the first does not look like Kashu, which is how they usually started

[nickm]

I appreciate the translations and am more so just wondering about the solid silver as of course the object itself is more valuable but I've never seen one that was solid silver. Also any ideas on the fucci signature?

[Ray Singer]

Fuchi appears to be signed 則次 KAO (Noritsugu). Yes, koshirae with all silver tosogu are sometimes seen. Congratulations on your new acquisition.

[Rivkin]

Later Edo generation is likely. Regarding the swordsmith.

 

Kirill R.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Nick, I would suggest getting the General to type up the history of how he acquired the dagger (even better if it's on personal stationery).

[Peter Bleed]

I am sure that the Kanazawa reference will enhance the "collectibility: of this little sword. Kanazawa is the kind of place that must have a collecting community. It will also enhance its historical potential. The Nobutomo line doesn't seem to be famous, but it was one of the enduring Shinto lines. Neat!

Peter

[nickm]

Well a kinda tacky question.. What do you guys think ots worth? Wondering if it would be right to pursue preservation, polish, nbthk... Either way I'm not one to sell things once I have them so not asking for that as to put a value in my mind between current and potential worth

[Rivkin]

Not a tricky question at all.

 

The blade is glassy looking with no attempt to emulate koto "things". Late production with very little hada-wise even were it in pristine condition.

Polish - definite no.

Papers - in the current market surprisingly things even of basic level do not sell without papers. Cheapest possible.

 

The value is in koshirae mostly. Which is nice, the only thing I would be careful wiping it with too much water in winter since Meiji wood does not respond well to large changes in humidity or temperature.

 

Kirill R.

[nickm]

Thank you to everyone for helping me identify the new find. Again super impressive and pretty awesome forum! Fundamental question I guess I am asking myself is as a relatively new collector wondering if it was a good buy at 2000 or not? Sounds like a yes from the koshirae standpoint but again would just love some more definitive opinions from the more knowledgeable. I guess regardless I am very happy with it as it is basically gorgeous but of course would love the reaffirmation of not being swindled

[Mark]

hard to say for sure without holding it, but from the pictures i would think if you had it on a table at one of the big sword shows it would bring $1500-1800.  I think if you asked 2k you would get interest and offers, if you asked 3k, or more,  it would sit. Blade is mediocre but real, mounts are interesting and "flashy"  but not Goto or top end.  It looks like something produced(the koshirae) in the late 1800's for sale to westerners. I don't think anyone would want to spend money for restoration, if you invested 2500 in it you would never see 5k from the restored sword.  So the buyer must like the sword "as is". I don't think you were swindled, the owner had no idea what it was, i think it was a fair deal and the sword will now be preserved and cared for (no more glue).  If you are worried offer it here for the 2k you paid, or a little more,  and see if it sells. Again just my opinion for pictures

[nickm]

Super appreciate the reply. As it stands I love it and never thought I would love a tanto as much. More into katana/wak and honestly koto things. About a week away from buying a kozori daito from bob benson.. Super excited! That said don't have any interest in theoretical investment recouped just wondering if I made a bad choice. Generally I am a bit of a black hole for things such as to say once I get it it tends to be mine forever. I have a problem falling in love with things after I hold them a few times! Gives my wife something to give me crap about so it's a win win

[Brian]

I personally think it's a $2500+ tanto. Real and nice blade, and well above average fittings. But maybe not at a sword show where there is a ton to choose from. But I think you did well, and could expect some profit. Again (and not to be a broken record) but I would ask Ford what he thinks of the fittings, and what he thinks they would look like after some care. May be worth it.

[nickm]

Thanks brian. Will do on the fittings. How would i go about contacting ford? the attempts I have made at googling him comes up with things about Ford vehicle restoration of course

[Brian]

https://www.facebook.com/tsubaman/

http://www.followingtheironbrush.org/index.php

Point him to this thread.

[Rivkin]

Not trying to be an expert, but it looks like a decent buy to me. Complete, made as a whole rather than assembled koshirae are never common.

The blade is a regular example, but very often pretty Meiji tanto will have something like this. 

Were it from the last generation master it would be even more interesting for people like me - a sign that someone ordered a nice gift set sometime at the beginning of Meiji, both blade and koshirae (unlikely?).

Sometimes there is a far greater difference in quality - Natsuo or Ichijo school mounts and a Meiji period fake.

Congrats!

 

Kirill R.

[raynor]

Love the baleen, if that is what that is.

 

When did the production to sell to westerners start? I assume closely following the 1868 Meiji restoration?

[Alex A]

Just found this with regards Baleen. http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic32-03-001.html

[nickm]

I have been looking into it online and have seen a few examples and can say pretty definitively that the wrapping is baleen. Definitely not like anything I have seen before in my hands. Going to point ford hallman in this direction today and see what he has to say about it

[nickm]

That was a super interesting read alex. Thanks for posting!

[nickm]

Finally got the habaki off.. Thanks again to everyone for the information on this piece. Can't say enough about how much of a resource this site is. Thank you all again! I hope to know enough one day to be able to pay it forward..

[Gunome]

Congratulation

A nice tanto in pretty good condition. Both fitting and blades are signed.

A nice one to study and start a collection

[Surfson]

Very nice buy Nick, congratulations!  It is a genuine samurai sword, and I believe likely to have been mounted in the Edo period. I think you got into it just fine at either $1500 or $2000.  I would look into fixing the handle a bit and take some time exploring options.  The state of polish and condition of the mounts appear to be good, and you can enjoy studying it for years.  Since it is a beautiful thing in the hand to a lay person, you can also enjoy showing this to friends.  Well done!

[Pete Klein]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned in this thread but if the koshirae does have baleen wrap then it should not be sent through US Customs as it may be confiscated and destroyed due to it being a whale product.  If restoration is required it should be kept within the USA.

[Surfson]

Many swords have ivory, most have ray skin, and some have baileen, all of which could potentially be flagged.  Some people who want to send them anyway choose not to emphasize these components in their declaration.  I think that the intent of the law is to prevent marketing parts of endangered species and not to inhibit the trading of antiques (this can be an issue with guitars too, many of which, especially the older ones, have woods that are banned) that have small amounts used decades or centuries ago.  

[nickm]

Thanks for the advice. Thinking of taking it to the april sword show in chicago.. Planning to have a few things looked at there anyway. Curious as to the communities view of nthk assessment as apposed to nbthk?

[Mark]

i look forward to seeing it Chicago, please introduce yourself. There will be a lot of knowledgeable people there and you will get plenty of opinions/information

[vajo]

Hello Pete,

 

that is not a problem. You need a CITES Dokument that this is antique.

 

https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/CITESDocumentRequirements11142007.pdf

 

https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/3177_1.pdf

 

https://www.cites.org/eng/resources/faq.php

 

The best thing is to ask the customs what to do if you will sent it for restoring. So it will go outside and comes back with knowing of the customs.

[Pete Klein]

Nick - when you are at the Chicago show Mark can introduce you to Mr. Fred Weissberg and Mr. Robert Benson whose tables are next to Mark's and who have decades of experience in these matters.  They can give you an idea of what is necessary if you should decide to export anything to Japan and any problems which might present.  You will require an agent to send the sword if you wish NBTHK shinsa.  The Yoshikawa NTHK will have a shinsa at the Tampa show the first weekend of March however I am not certain if Fred and/or Robert will be there this year.  

[Surfson]

I would think that it is almost certainly genuine.  The sword and the tang look to be in great shape and condition and the maker is not (to my knowledge) particularly famous.  The signature is well cut.  Without even studying it (I am in California away from my library), I would believe that it is genuine.  I'm not sure that the cost of papers ($275 or so) would add significantly to the value.  By all means bring it by and say hi (that is the only show that I regularly attend).  When I return home, I will try to have a look to see if I can find any examples of the mei of this smith.  

[Vermithrax16]

Just found this with regards Baleen. http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic32-03-001.html

Nice article and what a SMALL world! I attended a discussion led by Julie A. Lauffenburger not long ago (I work in Biotech/Pharma) and had I seen this I would have brought it up.

EDIT: The odds of two people having that exact same name has got to be small, but I was mistaken. Amazing.

 

Glad the tsuka is off. I can't see the kanji but maybe others can.