What Is The Most Sought After Blade Under 10,000Us$

[barnejp]

Hi Everyone,

For discussion;

What is the most sought after blade (only the blade) under 10,000US$?

Cheers,

Greg

 

[Ray Singer]

There is obviously a wide range of desirable swords at that price level, and the most desirable will depend on the individual tastes of the collector. If I had $10,000 to spend I would probably buy something like the Osafune Kagemitsu tanto which sold out of Japan recently. A healthy daito by a second tier school might also be found at that level, such as Enju, Echizen Rai, Naoe Shizu etc. A healthy late Nambokucho Kozori, Omiya or Nobukuni might be achievable for that budget as well.

[Greg F]

If I had $10,000 for Nihonto I would be grabbing a deal from Joe here on Nmb.

 

Greg

[PNSSHOGUN]

Agree with Greg, the Ikkansai group of smiths is extremely good. To that list I would add Gassan Sadakazu/Sadakatsu on a very lucky day and then a fairly wide range of Military swords.

[Brian]

From a purely desirable (easier to unload later) point of view, you would be looking for a katana, in polish, probably a Koto, with TH papers, from a decent school.
I think you could find something in that budget.

[BIG]

Other "advice" : save 20000 and buy a high TH or a Juyo blade. Need patience..

 

Best

[Gakusee]

With all due respect, Raymond, I do not think one can get an Osafune Kagemitsu tanto for $10,000. Perhaps several times that price. Unless it was really a gift with a token payment amount towards it.

I would also stick to a papered Koto sword but could also be a good Shinto blade (signed and in koshirae) for that sort of budget.

[Brian]

With all due respect, Raymond, I do not think one can get an Osafune Kagemitsu tanto for $10,000. Perhaps several times that price...

Well, since Ray is referring to a specific tanto that sold recently, I would expect he knows the price was within that budget, no?

[Gakusee]

Well, Osafune Kagemitsu is the most illustrious tanto maker in Bizen den. He is enumerated after A Yoshimitsu, S Kunimitsu, R Kunitoshi as among the greatest tanto makers ever. Fred had listed a very attractive Juyo tanto for $95k (with koshirae) in 2016-17 and Darcy had a great TH tanto (also with impressive koshirae) in 2017, which subsequently passed Juyo last year, for the “bargain” price of $45k.

So those are indicative of the levels for the Kagemitsu. Even if you discount these levels by 20-30% to infer what you might hope to find at a dealer in Japan, we are still talking big money.

If a zaimei shoshin Kagemitsu tanto is available for $10k, that would be a steal. Of course possible hypothetically, but highly unlikely (though we have heard such stories where great tanto were uncovered for bargain prices - cf the thread “did you see them” or something like that).

[Jussi Ekholm]

I just checked my "archives" and I do remember there was mumei Kagemitsu that was sold. It was Tokubetsu Hozon and asking price was 880k Yen at Tsuruginoya, http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/a00490.htmlI remember this very piece was discussed in here too. Of course there were reasons why Japanese dealer is selling it at the price they sold it for. They've been in the game and most likely know sword prices lot better than us.

 

I would personally perhaps go with Ray's Kozori route as you can get one in better condition compared to "higher attributions", decent signed Kozori tachi is a good possibility in that range. Or what Michael said about getting a good Shintō sword is also a viable option. It depends on what you want to collect.

[Ray Singer]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23943-bizen-kagemitsu-tanto/?fromsearch=1

 

With all due respect, Raymond, I do not think one can get an Osafune Kagemitsu tanto for $10,000. Perhaps several times that price.

[Gakusee]

Great that such deals are still around and thanks for pointing it out Ray and Jussi!

 

.... But these rare deals are usually one in a long while......whoever bought it got a very good deal, despite the blade being mumei and with tired jihada.

 

When one goes after THE Kagemitsu one usually buys excellent jihada and controlled suguha or thereabouts (eg kataochi gunome) ko-nie hamon with vivid utsuri. So that is the archetype and when there is a deviation (tired jihada etc) , then the price might suffer.

But, regardless, I think that was a great deal and also I remember Jean had flagged up another great tanto which Tsuruginoya had priced attractively (cannot remember which one) several years ago.

[Katsujinken]

$10,000 up to $20,000 is a danger zone in terms of quality for the money.

 

I’d say spend well under $10,000 or save money so you can go above $20,000.

 

In between is a fraught middle ground where a lot of collectors run into trouble.

[Guest Rayhan]

I would focus on a high quality Gendai sword for that price, some awesome ones to collect i this range

[Stephen]

The one i sold and never get back..but thats just me.

[Peter Bleed]

Maybe I'm a collector and not a shopper, but for me, the easy and obvious answer to Greg's question, "what's the most sought after blade.." is...

THE NEXT ONE!

Peter

[Vermithrax16]

If you know exactly what you want, there are numerous options in the 10K range for most any era, work style, etc.

 

"Sought After" is an amorphous term. By the book folks will go the Koto era, probably Bizen path.  What is a single person looking for is a better question. Carbon copy a "gold standard" collection may be what one wants to do, who knows.

 

Save up another 20k to buy a Juyo. Ok, Juyo is a WIDE sliding scale; Aoi Art has several in the 20k-30k range right now, would anyone here buy them?

 

Why not save up another 30k-50k to get a higher end one? Hell, why not 100k-200k and go Toku Juyo. I mean, this is silly. 

 

The purpose I would think is to learn and study this art. 

 

NMB is a great resource but the budget aspect get passed by too much. "Yes, your sword is nice but for another 30k you could find better". Well, no kidding. 

 

[Blazeaglory]

I'd say, atm, there are a few really nice blades here in the for sale section for under $10k.

 

Personally for me, I'm a history hound, so I stear towards Koto blades. But honestly it's a hard question to answer because each collector has different taste and goals. Plus if the blade is for sale one day, the next day it's gone.

 

Wether is a $1000 blade or a $10k blade, it's whatever makes you happy. But for that price it better have paper and a signature????

 

My. 02 cents

[w.y.chan]

Find something that is selling for $12k and wave that $10k under their nose

[Bencld]

I’m loving your thinking there Wah !

[PNSSHOGUN]

To be honest some of my favourite swords are also the ones I had relatively good deals on, makes them just a bit more special.

[Hoshi]

It's a strange question. 

 

Price is a function of how much something is sought after. 

 

So what you're asking for boils down to 'How can I spend 10'000$' to acquire value equal or in excess of 10'000$. That's unlikely to happen unless a combination of a) you are lucky b) your knowledge exceeds that of the dealer and you can beat the market more often than they beat you or c) you tap into the altruistically provided expert knowledge and it gives you a small edge on the odds against the House. 

 

On the dealer front the Kagemitsu tanto in this regard was good advice, but these happen once in a blue moon. Sometimes dealers will mix a good item in the middle of less good items to keep interest going high. 

 

I think ultimately you've not figured out what you personally like. In that regard don't just go with what you instinctively 'like' - but take in expert advice on what is good, and use this to create your own blend. Taste changes, and if you study long and hard enough it's likely that your tastes will converges at least in part towards the preferences of those who have seen thousands of swords. Maybe you'll end up acquiring something you don't completely understand, but then its value with slowly reveal itself as you walk down the path. 

 

Be patient and study. Good luck in your quest. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I agree with what Jeremiah wrote earlier. If you keep digging and digging you'll find lots of really interesting things in 10k range. I think it is often heard what Michael said above that 10 - 20,000 range is a "danger zone". I think it might partially come down to that swords costing as much are difficult to realize when needed, hence many will think they got "burned" while they might have had decent deal on a decent sword. I believe that people often might have slightly unrealistic idea of the resale of their own items (I know I value my swords over my purchase prices while in reality they would be less than that most likely).

 

I'll have here 5 interesting (in my mind) swords that are/were roughly 10k$'s from Japanese dealers. When you keep track of things at least 3 of these are sold multiple times sometimes by various dealers over the last 10 years (meaning they are not some hidden gems). I tried to dig and all 5 of these are very difficult to find in 10k range, but swords like these can occasionally be found.

 

Yoshioka Ichimonji Naoshi: https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-mumei-yoshioka-ichimonji-nagamaki-naoshi/

Definately not the finest Ichimonji attributed sword out there.

 

Ayanokōji Sueyuki Tachi: https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-mumei-unsigned-joshu-sueyuki/

Long Yamashiro tachi

 

Osafune Yoshimitsu Katana: https://web.archive.org/web/20160322011247/http:/www.tokka.biz/sword/yoshimitsu2.html

Suriage Nanbokuchō

 

Hidemitsu tachi dated 1378: http://www.shouzando.com/k-hidemitsu170409.html

If only that bad portion of the sword wasn't there... Well then the price would be different.

 

Hasebe Kunishige (late): https://web.archive.org/web/20130119060859/http:/www.tokka.biz:80/sword/kunishige2.html

Nice and wild one

 

I'd have few others that are really interesting and some of them sold super fast, unfortunately most dealers delete the pages for sold swords, so I need to grab the information really fast. For example there was signed Kamakura tachi by Bizen Kagezane that sold within few days and vanished. I saved it to my phones notebook and when I tried to go to look at it at home it was already gone. There have been multiple swords that seem to sell within few days of their public arrival to websites, those are obviously thought to be good deals by at least one if not more buyers.

[Hoshi]

Well played Jussi. that Hasebe is fantastic late gen work and beats the kagemitsu out of the water in my opinion. The date is wrong though, it's probably Muromachi / late Soshu. 

[Gakusee]

That Hasebe identified by Jussi was clearly a great blade. Someone did well.

 

Speaking of Hasebe, Tsuruta had a Soshu Tsunahiro or Hasebe wak/sunnobi tanto for $8k or thereabouts. The Tanobe sensei sayagaki was ambiguous I think and Aoi thought could be a Hasebe. That was also a great offer and I hesitated for a bit because this is far outside of my collecting focus.

That blade was gone in two days.