Imitation Same For Tsuka

[Blazeaglory]

Hello all. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with imitation Same wrap? I would prefer the real thing but as I get older, my heart grows weaker. Long story short, I would hate to use ray skin not knowing if the populations are at risk, or skin a creature just for my Nihonto handle, etc... but on the same token, I really don't want to use imitation either. I will be using BLACK if that matters.

 

So I'm hoping to get all of your opinions? I think I know how most of you feel but has anyone actually used fake Same? How does it feel or work compared to the real thing?

 

Anyways thanks in advance

[Jussi Ekholm]

Some Chinese replica swords have imitation panels, as do some mogitō. Panels are pretty much only thing that make sense at least on the imitations that I've seen as they do not offer added strength in full wrap (at least I'd think so). There are various quality of imitations, I've seen very bad plastic panels on replicas and on some mogitō the imitation has been quite nice, recognizable but still decent.

 

I think the fact that you will go for black might help a bit as lacquering will hide the base a bit.

 

What kind of sword are you planning to work on? What type of tsukamaki are you planning on the project (if any)?

[SteveM]

As far as I know, the ray skin used for tsuka (at least nowadays) is taken from a non-threatened species. But, I understand the sentiment. 

[Blazeaglory]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I think, for the sake of the sword and tradition, I'll end up going with real Same and I'll plant a tree or sponsor a orphaned gnarwal to ease my conscious...

 

Juss...This "project" is for a possible Mino O-Suriage Waki. You might have seen it before as I posted it once or twice????

So far I've put together a Tsuba (Ko-Kinko Muromachi?), Fuchi/Kashira (looks to be mid to late Edo?), dark brown Japanese silk Tsuka-Ito and some really nice Tulip Poplar. I'm still looking for a pair of Menuki that would match and the Same.

 

I was also thinking about just going with a nice flashy gold dragon set of Menuki because that would stand out on the black and brown but I would like it to at least look like it belongs. I know I have a distinct and unusual method for things and this might not be for everyone but I was trying to do something different while using traditional methods (as far as my limited expertise will allow) and real Nihonto items.

 

In regards to the Fuchi and Kashira, I quite like the geometric patterns. Also, if you look close, you can see the gold areas are actually individual different shapes. Triangles, octagon, circles, squares, etc... They are in the shape of multiple dragons. At first I thought they looked like crap and I'm sure others think the same but after a while I noticed the Dragon shapes and somewhat decent quality in hand carved craftsmanship... there is no rust on these or serious blemish. Just a little dirty.

 

I'm in the process of making a stand using these plans. I did manage to find a nakago blank (forgot traditional name atm). It's made surprisingly well and powder coated.

 

Anyways didn't mean to rant but I would like thoughts from you and others if that's ok! Good or bad.

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi Dwain,

   Here's an option for you.  I picked up this tsuka in Japan a couple of years ago.  I was fascinated by the "imitation" same. It's actually a piece of thin copper that was punched from the back side to give it the same effect. This one, as you can see, was painted a gold color, but I'm certain black would work equally well.

  I not certain the age of the tsuka, but all the fittings appear to be late Edo, and good quality.  I'm not sure how common this was, but its the only one I've ever seen!

      Best of luck,

     Tom M.

[TETSUGENDO]

Dwain,

 

Genuine same can be used without guilt as Steve said.  The types harvested are plentiful, not only is the skin used but the flesh is eaten as well.....fear not, your tsuka project will not contribute to a mass extinction of the ray population.  As for lacquering the Same, have at it, just strive for a tasteful harmonious ensemble.

 

Cheers,

    -S- 

[Guest Rayhan]

Sting ray is a very popular dish at Asian dinner tables and is therefore sustainably farmed in large numbers. I personally don't eat it as it has too many bones but as mentioned, verifying your source of same is a first step and go from there. Ray skin is naturally waterproof and protects the inner wood of the tsuka whilst providing a good gripping surface and holds the ito in place better than alternatives

[ROKUJURO]

The SAME used for TSUKA is mostly 'pearl ray', not sting ray. It is used widely in the industry for the production of handbags and purses.

[Stephen]

Are you looking to practice on tsuka or to finished tsuka. i have a skin that the large nodules have been removed.

[UnoKubi]

Hello all. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with imitation Same wrap? I would prefer the real thing but as I get older, my heart grows weaker. Long story short, I would hate to use ray skin not knowing if the populations are at risk, or skin a creature just for my Nihonto handle, etc... but on the same token, I really don't want to use imitation either. I will be using BLACK if that matters.

 

So I'm hoping to get all of your opinions? I think I know how most of you feel but has anyone actually used fake Same? How does it feel or work compared to the real thing?

 

Anyways thanks in advance

 

Actually, it does.    If you're looking to start off with black samegawa, you're going to be buying ray *leather,* not rawhide.  It will not do the same job, and is a different animal altogether, so to speak...  It will be pliable and polished, not stiff and sharp.  Just an fyi.  :-)

[Blazeaglory]

Very good info! More than I hoped for!

 

I seriously feel allot better now, not that it matters lol but I did kinda picture it as a kinda "fox fur" farm or something similar and brutal. And all the talk about the food has made me think of "house special pearlrays" !!

 

I do know of the waterproof aspects and would like that feature but the dimpled copper or similar is very interesting and the mention of lacquered Same with more options than just black has got my mind going.

 

I've been reading "the art of tsuka maki" and noticed silk as well. The very early tsuka in the book have awesome metal wrapping. One has a spiral from F to K. Pretty bad @$$

 

Seriously thanks for the ideas! Oh yeah, here's the tsuka ito