Captured WWII Sword

[Curran]

There are people on the board making less than him offering to chip in towards the restoration.

It isn't elitism or Reg Joe debate.

 

I'm obviously in the frustrated preservationist camp.

[Virginian]

SAS, Thank you for the message. I honestly don't think people here are elitists and would probably say that they are some of the friendliest and most helpful people I've ever met.

 

When I said that I didn't feel like I had much in common with the group, I had just got back from busting my butt on the farm all day and I was sitting in one of my old trucks that I could hardly get running and I was reading a bunch of comments from people that were making it seem like I was out to hurt the sword, or that I didn't care about it. I felt ganged up on and said a stupid comment. I have received countless private messages from people offering advice and I appreciate every one of them. I think it's too late for me to take up sword collecting, but from what I've seen, most of you guys are "salt of the earth". My apologies to anyone offended as I usually have thicker skin. Thanks again to all on the board.

 

George VO

[MichaelZWilliamson]

George, while my family is rather not poor, my wife is reservation born, grew up literal trailer trash within throwing distance of the Mexican border. I was born in the UK in a house without central heat, before we moved to Canada, then the US. I left for Basic with one small bag of personal possessions.

 

And she still raises animals here. https://farm.firehazel.com/

 

Our current status of "not poor" is due to a combination of sheer stubbornness and a certain amount of luck.  I have a certain amount of liquidity to throw at my hobbies.  In exchange I still refuse to waste money on things like new cars (mine's the newest here, 10 years old), and we produce some of our own food because she likes to, and because it might be needful.

I greatly respect your displayed integrity, careful thought in both seeking out this place (I just joined last week) and its expertise, and concern for your artifact and its history. I don't think anyone is trying to be snobbish. We're just awed at your fortune in possessing such a piece, and that you're methodically trying to do what's best.  I've come across plenty of, "Eh, $50 is good," and "I think I'll polish this up and have it chrome plated" (shudder), and "It's just a sword, who careS?" not to mention "We don't need things like that in OUR house!"  

 

Good luck, and Semper Fi.

[Darcy]

I'm on a boat now for a few days going diving. I have intermittent internet so I can't respond easily or fast to requests.

 

About this sword: I am not commercially involved so if anyone wants to contact the owner about it, they should do that directly and I would be happy if a member works something out with George to buy the sword and then will follow through on restoration. I can continue to guide the sword through that in Japan.

 

But please read the thread and see where I have had to correct "Darcy said" statements and some statements that I've made in private for private consumption may be missing context where they are transmitted as hearsay so please do not hang anything on me because "Darcy said" something and I would appreciate if people let me speak for myself in my own words as much as possible. This will be difficult for a few days as trying to get cell phone access in the ocean is not easy.

[Ken-Hawaii]

George, please read the post at http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/27289-appeal-for-help-funding-purchase-of-sanchomo/. This important blade will be purchased by donations from several thousands of us, many/most of whom will never see the blade.

[Brian]

Darcy,
No worries. Your role in this is exemplary and beyond reproach. Everyone knows that. And that is why when the next significant item comes along, the same advice will be given, to see if you can assist.
I really hope oneday down the line when George has found a satisfactory outcome, you will be tasked with the arrangements for the sword.
Whatever happens now, I thing we all know George has good intentions for the sword, and so will any future owner. I think the sword is safe, and so are our reputations here. It has been a great and rapid journey. Faster than anyone could have hoped for. Now to let it play out in its own time.
 

[Virginian]

As a Marine officer, my integrity is more important to me than anything else on the planet. I will never question Darcy's honesty and I know he is a pillar of your community, so I'm not sure where our disconnect is. I have a complete email trail of everything sent to me from the beginning and I may have taken some things out of context, but I have not in any way, said something that wasn't in print. Anything I've said here or in private message can be verified.

 

Take care,

George VO

[Virginian]

Thank you all for the overwhelming support through private messages. This is a great group of guys that are passionate about the hobby.

 

Because of the recommendations of numerous experts and several Marine brothers, I will be waiting until the sword is back in my hands before making any decisions. It is no longer for sale and I will be setting aside some money for a future polish.

 

Thanks again to everyone involved. It is amazing to talk to so many people who have absolutely no agenda or motive beyond what's best for the blade.

 

Take care,

George VO

[vajo]

A good decission George. 

 

all the best and take care.

[Darcy]

OK I am off the boat.

 

There is no attack on George's integrity. 

 

As can be seen upthread I have had to supply context and fix interpretations of my statements. 

 

Being out of touch, on a boat, I echoed that I wanted to speak for myself and not have "Darcy said" being used in discussions and what I wanted people to do was "ask Darcy what he thinks" which is better and would:

 

1. be up to date with all developments instead of out of chronological order

2. allow me to supply context to my statements

3. fix any misinterpretations

 

Nowhere in this did I impugn any reputation or intend that and I'm saddened, frustrated, and stressed the hell out to be having the discussion fall to this level. This kind of misunderstanding is part of why I want to speak for myself, because it's another case of me saying something, it being interpreted differently from what it was intended and how it reads to me, and then being turned around and posted here as meaning something else. 

 

I have to keep saying: there isn't any ill intent in any mistakes or misstatements. But if it needs correcting, it needs correcting, that's just a fact, and I've had to correct them and wanted to insulate against further corrections while I was incommunicado.

 

I've written to George and said I won't be commenting here any further on his sword.

 

I have a strong desire to get him back his sword as fast and safely as possible, and I've asked him to work with me in this regard. This is all being done at my expense. With the authentication at high levels for this sword, it's allowed it to gain considerable value vs. if it had gone into ebay. So I trust that the exercise was useful to the owner especially on donated time. 

 

As a courtesy as well to George, I am refraining from any further comment in public or private to anyone on the sword or related matters other than this: The blade is authentic in my opinion and the opinion of everyone that saw it in Japan including Tanobe sensei, the hamon above and below the problem area are coming out to be quite beautiful, it is ubu and early Kamakura, and the problem is an open question for any collector to think about on their own and how they feel about it. The fukure can be closed by the best expert in Japan and will not be so distracting afterwards. There is nothing else to say on it, so that's it. I hope for George and any future buyer and the sword itself that everything goes well and smoothly and the sword is restored to its former glory. Everyone can make their own decisions within their own capabilities. And may everyone be happy at the end of the process.

[Rivkin]

George, I think it is one of the cases when its really hard to give an advice, because all options are sort of valid.

 

The one thing I would add from personal experience is that free advice always has boundaries. If someone is willing to pick up the polishing investment, means they are certain the sword is worth more than that - and it tells you something. But if someone tells you "a polish will fix that", than ...

I almost never have swords polished. Part of it is if you collect, you simply don't know if the polished outcome will be to your liking even if everything sort of works out as it should. There is a great range of quality and tiredness and you never know exactly where you are going to land.

 

And one of three disasters I had with nihonto is buying a sword that was shown to everyone and everyone was really excited and certain with attribution and saying how great this will turn out, and what a rare find it is. And then during the polish what turned out were the problems. And you own 100% of them, you are not going to sue the polisher "buy you told me that's easy to fix", or NBTHK personnel "but you told me the signature looks good".

Complete waste of considerable sum, a LOT of time, mutli-year affair - ending up in basically huge, ubu, Kamakura, but troubled blade going away for 1500$.

 

Which is btw just a little bit below what a first class Mongol dugout sword from the same period would cost - and those are 30,000 times more rare than nihonto. Its just the way it is.

 

Kirill R.

[SAS]

So Darcy, I would like to hear about your dive trip.....maybe post in the Izakaya? Staying tuned for the rest of the sword's journey......

[Surfson]

Kirill, I would like to hear more about your saga with an Ubu Kamakura sword.  Perhaps on another thread.  It sounds like a real cautionary tale, not only regarding this sword, but any very early sword.  

[Jean]

I bought once a Muromachi rusted Kanetsune Daito with NTHK kanteisho. Had it polished. 3 hagire appeared. I lost my shirt.... that is why I buy only blades in full polish. Errare humanum est, perseverare .....

[Rivkin]

Kirill, I would like to hear more about your saga with an Ubu Kamakura sword.  Perhaps on another thread.  It sounds like a real cautionary tale, not only regarding this sword, but any very early sword.  

 

Thank you very much, though I feel there are many with considerably more experience, since I basically dropped out of the process early.

First and foremost realizing how few (literally three-four??) people can actually do stunning quality polish that suits great blades - without suffocating utsuri with hadori in Bizen and with crisp separation of nie clouds in Soshu, and how many well known and well respected polishers are actually responsible for green papers suddenly downgrading to Uda or Shimada, simply because NBTHK today does not spend time trying to figure out what's really happening there underneath all that white stuff.

As a result of "abstinence" however I failed to develop the relationship with the best people, despite having couple of blades that really need attention, well I probably should bring them by sokendo or something.

 

This being said, first disaster - the blade with "certainly nambokucho" sugata and 39.5 inch nagasa to everyone's surprise came out as extremely deformed, though unusually long and kissaki-enabled, but Muromachi example of no particular beauty. Second disaster - Kamakura blade with hamon visible in about quarter of blade came out with almost no discernible hada, save a few rough patches, and quite mushy looking hamon that is very dim in places. Burned? No signs in nakago and no clearly discernible issues with sugata or balance, but possible. Extra-tired? Also possible.

I guess at some point of age these things would not matter, and I don't want this to reflect on the sword being discussed - my was considerable later in Kamakura, while signed Munechika with holes in blade, retempered and missing boshi I guess will still be a somewhat important sword. Again, I don't think the topic's sword is there either.

Long story short, on ebay both disasters went, one for 1000 and another for 1500. Maybe the second one got papered and the owner is now enjoying a happy gain to about 4,000$ worth sword, but I really did not want to do anything with either of the blades at this point.

 

Kirill R.

[Tom Darling]

Hello, hello calling all ships is Munetada still on the good ship lollipop? "Finally, to sum up."  Please. Thank you. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[Guido]

Hello, hello calling all ships is Munetada still on the good ship lollipop? "Finally, to sum up."  Please. Thank you. Peace.

[Guest Rayhan]

Awesome thread! Great find, cannot believe i missed it from the beginning but having read it all twice now, just awesome!

[Tom Darling]

Hi Guido,

 

The windup, The conclusion. Final results?  Thank you. Oh, by the way I loved your Funny Bunny pic. Peace.

 

Tom D.

[Virginian]

The sword just arrived back in the U.S. safely. I still have to decide where to go from here, but I have some of the best advisors on the planet.

 

George V

[Gakusee]

We hope it goes well, George. Do keep us posted should you decide to restore it. Curious how the hamon and hada look underneath the rust.

[EastCoast]

Virginian,

 

Someone on here pitched the idea about how this may be suitable for a documentary. I may have the contacts to make this happen, which could have multiple upsides. PM me if you have time or, since I am in Maryland, we may be able to meet in person.

 

Best,

James

[Virginian]

The sword was returned back to my hands this afternoon. Even though it has sat around for years with nobody paying attention to it, it's like a long lost friend returning home. I am indebted to Darcy and Ted for taking it across the "big pond" to verify that it is what they thought it was. It's hard to tell where the story goes from here, but rest assured that the blade will be better cared for than it was in the previous 75 years. As soon as I received it, I coated all metal parts with my Blade Guard Paste and put it back in the gun safe.

 

Thank you so much for all the info I received from members of this forum. You guys have been an unbelievable asset and I appreciate your efforts. I have no plans to send the blade away for polish, since I suspect that any damage it may have might be due to over polishing over 800+ years. I will inform my children of the history of this blade, so they are not as lost as I was when this story began. I'm sure it will hit the market someday, but unless it's for an amount that helps out my mother immensely, the groundhogs will probably be delivering my mail.

 

I have always appreciated this sword and the other one my Grandfather captured, but will appreciate them even more, since I know the history behind them. Holding an 800 year old work of art is a humbling experience. Thanks again to all involved and I wish you all success in your hobby/lifestyle. Last night I watched a rerun of a show called Expedition Unknown about a sword called the Honjo Masamune and it was very interesting seeing the both the historical side and the collectors side. I can understand the attraction you guys have for this hobby.

 

Good luck and take care,

George VO

[raynor]

Great that the blade is safe, George. If you do not mind, I and probably a lot of other people too would appreciate some photos next time you take it out, especially of the small polished area that was done?

 

Cheers.

[Greg F]

+1

 

Greg

[BIG]

Hi George, what do you think about a documentary to safe the whole story. Maybe James ( Eastcost) can help?

 

Best

[PNSSHOGUN]

I think a documentary could be a really sensational idea, especially if they facilitated it getting polished or appraised again.

[Stephen]

Hi George

Please clue me in on what blade guard paste is.

 

Google gave this disclaimer

 

Legal Disclaimer :

This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.

You dont have to trust a ol fool such as i...

Big but...id clear that with Ted

[Logan09]

This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Everything in California causes cancer.

[vajo]

Can someone clear for what this paste good is? Choji oil and nothing will happen.