Captured WWII Sword

[ChrisW]

Find of the year so far?

[Gakusee]

Well done to Darcy and George. Wish both luck with it and fingers crossed Tanobe sensei verifies the nakago and mei. He would probably recommend a polisher for it too, as certain polishers are good at certain eras and schools. It will have to be touched very sensitively by a most skilled polisher due to some thinness and the fukure but even so I am cautiously optimistic.

 

I am genuinely happy for George. Also, it shows that great blades do still turn up in the US, even though more scarcely.

 

Darcy - please kindly update us after Tanobe sensei has seen it. It is a great and exciting odyssey!

Thank you.

[tokashikibob]

Happy to hear that the Marine is going to come into some money and take care of the family member that needs the help.

Good Karma all around!

[Virginian]

Thanks guys for the well-wishes. Darcy and Ted Tenold are first class gentlemen and it's been an honor and a pleasure to pick their brains and get their professional opinions on this sword. There are still a lot of moving parts to this adventure, but it's amazing to have posted pictures on this site and within a couple weeks, my sword is in Tokyo.

 

There are a lot of people involved in this effort, but I personally believe that Michael was the driving force behind it. He stuck his neck out with some observations and even contacted Darcy... Thanks Michael.

 

George VO

[Bazza]

Wow, that is amazing to hear the owner followed advice, and the speed that Darcy was able to get it to Japan.

I wish everyone luck. It is great to be able to be a very small part of this and really hats off to both Darcy and to George for trusting advice and doing the right thing.

Really looking forward to hearing more.

With the Board and everyone's good will this has turned out to be an amazing adventure for George - and us all.  Without the Board who knows...

 

RANT MODE ON

 

It is EXTREMELY sobering to reflect that if an old soldier had handed that sword into a police station here in my State of Victoria in Australia, as a grotty looking thing and a SWORD it would most likely have been destroyed as it is classed as a prohibited weapon.  A senior policeman is on record as saying prohibited weapons handed to police or confiscated will be destroyed.  Many here will remember the battle we had back in 2006 trying to turn back the proposed change to the law, without effect.  The many letters from overseas (NBTHK, Royal Armouries, To-ken Society of Great Britain, JSSUS and dozens more) had no effect whatsoever.  The mindset of the politicians and high-level bureaucrats of the time was immovable and a widely held view is that the Police Minister of the day was an incompetent - obviously.  To this day the number plate on my trailer bears the motto under the registration number "Victoria - the State we're in!!"  I still grieve over this decision by our legislators.  There is more background to the story though - a Parliamentarian's son was badly cut by a sword in an assault and one person was killed by a sword in a notorious nightclub assault.  Allegedly killed by a sword - reports I read suggested it could have been a machete and these are still "legal" and used in countless crimes to this day.  Our big, daily newspaper got on the case and hammered the Police Minister and everybody caved in.  No voice of reason (I was told "they" had received 600 objections) could turn this legislation back.  It was a fait accompli.

 

RANT MODE OFF

 

I'm deliriously happy for George and I'm quite "high" on a happy ending.  I have a similar, though not so exalted, path ahead of me with a Shodai "Soboro" Sukehiro katana I found in a distressed state, though eminently restorable.  I shudder when I think of the fate that it could have had...

 

BaZZa.

[raynor]

This thread is so much better then the newscycle of the day. Smiles and swords all around.

 

Coincidentally I am driving to Virginia as I write for spring break. Got a house in the Appalachians where we will relax in quiet and nature for a week. Any suggestions where I could go sword hunting :)

[Darcy]

Tanobe sensei confirmed it as authentic. 

 

Interesting kantei point, he said the lack of shinogi on this kind of old nakago helps confirm the age. That the early Kamakura and Heian nakago lack shinogi. He said the mei was better than some of the examples that the NBTHK has had in the past. There is an equal one that is Juyo Bijutsuhin but the blade is suriage, though it is also kijimomo and you can still see that in it (that one belonged to the Shimazu daimyo).

 

There are only 5 other examples extant and published, one suriage in Juyo 13 (two character signature right at the bottom), one in Juyo 57 (two character signature but the tada is eroded away and it is attributed as DEN Ko-Ichimonji Munetada in spite of there being the one character visible, when you get DEN in combination with a signed blade it registers as very cautious). This one with the weak mei passed Tokubetsu Juyo which repeated the DEN Munetada and it's also suriage. That's it for the NBTHK blades.

 

There is a Juyo Bijutsuhin with a weaker signature, and suriage (mei right at the bottom), and then the Shimazu one mentioned which is suriage.

 

There is one Juyo Bunkazai that is ubu and owned by the Mishima Taisha. So that one is not leaving Japan nor will enter a collection. 

 

So this is the sixth known example and has the best nakago of them all including the Jubun one as that one is not kijimomo. 

 

This is going to await NBTHK confirmation still. Info on the other blades is from me not Tanobe sensei. He went over all the existing signatures and said this one has the proper common elements and is in his opinion authentic. Polisher has been suggested and agreed to and the owner is going to move it forward and see what happens. It can't get fixed up in time for the upcoming Juyo shinsa so it won't be in there but if it polishes OK I think Juyo is basic and then I think should be a strong contender at Tokubetsu Juyo. Still some ifs based on polish results.

 

All positive so far.

[Darcy]

Also one more thing, as for the speed of getting this done, it is down to luck and some work and some kindness.

 

Luck because if George posted it one day later there wouldn't have been enough time to do it. This trip was planned 9 months ago, as I fly on points I have to book that far in advance. Second, Ted hand carried it and George went all in and got it to Ted with one day to spare, I had already arrived in Tokyo. Third, we had 3 blades to bring over for papers and polish, and one of those blades got bumped to make room for this. The owner of the blade was/is aware of this thread and you all know him from the board, but I will leave it to him to identify himself if he wants. He took his blade out of the set in order to make room for George's and that was a generous move. Karma has already visited him. 

[Brian]

So pleased to hear that news, I think we are all holding thumbs for this one. So many things just working out perfectly and so many people to thank for how this has gone.
Well done to the person who bumped their sword to give this one a chance. Thanks for the constant updates Darcy and to everyone else who is/has helped.

[Stephen]

I did call the nakago...lol.

Find of the year??? More like decade!

[Darcy]

Also Michael smacked me upside the head and said I better look at this thing otherwise I'd be drinking sake.

[ROKUJURO]

All in all, this is a good story to accompany an interesting sword. I like the idea that a number of kind and knowledgeable people from NMB supported its journey! 

[Pete Klein]

[Jussi Ekholm]

I am so happy how this is turning out, shows what a great community we have!

 

I feel the stars are aligning with this one and I hope it will help your mother getting a new home or otherwise help your family in a good way. It's a great family story in general added on to the probably great set of stories already within your family line.

 

Here is a picture of the Jūyō 13 sword, and as there are only 5 other known signed examples as Darcy noted, we now have 3 of them in this thread.

[Virginian]

A lot of good people on this board... I'm feeling the love. I assumed that Darcy dropped one of his own blades in order to take mine. I had no idea another collector dropped from the trip. My hat is off to that fine individual. I pray that your patience pays off.

George VO

[Surfson]

George, first of all, this has been a thrilling story to follow and sincerest congratulations to you on having the presence of mind to bring the sword to the NMB for help with appraisal.  

 

I don't know precisely what your family lore is, but it is quite possible that this sword was presented to your grandfather by the captain.  Many of the finest swords were presented from the leaders of the Japanese forces to the leadership of the US forces.  

 

My point is that it might not just be luck that your grandad ended up with a wonderful sword, but actually protocol on the Japanese side.  

 

In any case, I am on the edge of my seat waiting to hear the rest of this outstanding story.  Cheers, Bob

[Peter Bleed]

George,

This has been a great story which we have all enjoyed. It seems to be heading in a good direction. I am happy for you!  If I can give you some advice, I say that you should NOT bother to buy lottery tickets for a while. You have used up a lot of your good luck! Just think of all the things that could have happened along the way.

Peter

[Ooitame]

Congratulations to George, and all involved! To think of how old and rare this sword is and the stories it could tell about all the warriors who once possessed it. Would like to see some pictures when it is done with polishing and shinsa. Again, my congratulations.

[raynor]

I firmly believe good things come to good people. Do not think you could have come to a better place with your sword, the seas are full of sharks. Enjoy!

[Brian]

I decided to have another read of this whole thread, from the beginning just for interest.
And yes...a lot is owed to Michael, he was on it right from the start and pushed it with a lot of research and effort. Well done Michael

[vajo]

Great to follow this story. Congratulations!

[Gakusee]

Brian, George - it is my pleasure. I have learnt a lot from the board over the last 10-12 years (even before I registered as a member), made great contacts and friends here and if I can help, I shall try my best.

I am very happy for George and wish him all the best!

Frankly I would also not have noticed all of this but as I check most of the new content, sometimes I even go in the military sword section out of curiosity, even though not my thing or forte. But it helps to educate oneself so I check “ newer sword “ topics occasionally.

 

It was genuinely my pleasure and excitement to slowly see how all the details gradually stack up to build a fuller picture.

 

Thank you to George for obliging all of us and having faith to do

as requested, dismantling the sword and showing us pics.

Thank you to Darcy for his generous offer and help and in general

helping educate the Western Nihonto community. And thank you to Brian and the NMB for providing this forum to us.

[BIG]

Thanks to all the protagonists. May be Brian can fix the thread, like the yume collection..

Only thing is the headline. George, what about other headline..

 

Best

[Brian]

Changed the setting, so now you can post multiple capitals in titles. But "shouting" in thread titles will be edited.

[Stephen]

[Prewar70]

Darcy can you speculate what type of family owned a blade of this importance? When I read about the koto blades on your site the history of Daimyo ownership is particularly interesting. I’d think that a signed ubu Tachi like this had to have been owned by important families. Is it possible to research if this sword is named or mentioned in any texts or ceremonies as gifts?

[raynor]

I assume there was/is a lot of big name swords kept quietly under wraps as unless you were Shogun you did not want people to know what you had.

[Darcy]

Omar is right.

 

Hard to say except the blade was in Tensho fighting koshirae. But the kind of fuchigashira for a rich and powerful man. Sounds like a daimyo family blade. Who? We don't know.

 

Window will be opened in the morning.

 

It's possible to brut search their registers and find matches but you don't get a guaranteed result.

[Curran]

Holy Moly     .The fittings section has been a little dull recently, so I decided to see what there was to read over here.

It seems I missed quite the party.

 

Wow I am glad this got to Ted and Darcy. I didn't think much of the blade from the first image and dismissed it based partially on the hi.

When I saw the photo of the nakago, it got turned on its ear very fast.

https://tenor.com/view/ron-burgundy-escalated-quickly-gif-9744555

 

George VO,

Welcome to NMB. Everybody here may not be an angel, but it is one of the best pubs (aka. Izakaya) you can stumble into.

There have been some big finds the last few years- and this certain is going to be shouldering into that small group. This blade does face polish risk, but I'm very happy it got to the right persons.

 

When time allows, throw us a bone in the Fittings group and show us the fuchi-kashira.

I wouldn't mind a peak at the tsuba either. After some of the walk ins we had in Tampa this year, I need to pay more attention to Vet bring ins.

[Shogun8]

The stuff of legends! Really enjoyed reading about this incredible find and story. Congrats to George, Michael, Darcy and all involved.