Culling Tsuba For Fun

[kissakai]

Hi

I'd like to here your views on the attached PDF file

It is all about what to keep and what to move on

What should be interesting is what style different people like and to see is there is a consensus of the best example

 

Shoami tsuba.pdf

 

 

Grev

[Curran]

My opinion:   4a and 4b are 'Futagoya' = Norisuke school of the Nagoya area some time in the later 1800s.

 

Iron for Futagoya is going to be of a greyish slightly graphite type grit.

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

judging only with photos, I would keep 1a & 1b, 3, and 13, whether they are SHOAMI or not.

[b.hennick]

I would keep 1a, 1b, 3 and 5.

[ggil]

I’d keep 1a, 3, 13, 19, and 21 (my favorite of the group). Maybe the ocean theme diasho but I would keep them to mount not to study. if any of these you have taken the time to get papers with them I would keep those tsuba, as you have a time and effort put into them and they are verified (well somewhat so) of a particular school etc, so most useful for study.

[DRDave]

Pick 6.  Hmmm...  1a, 3, 4a, 13, 19 and 22.

[Surfson]

I would keep 1a and 3.

[rkg]

Grev,

 

I'm not sure there is such a thing as the "best example" of a shoami tsuba, as 1)the artisans binned as shoami were spread individually and in groups far and wide and they made all kinds of pieces, and 2) the groups are a dumping ground for work that can't be easily binned.

 

Second, as to what to cull, that's a tough and actually somewhat subjective question.  What one person might think is a "keeper", the next guy won't for whatever reason (personal taste, condition, life experience (if somebody has seen top end examples hand, perhaps none of these would be wanted by that individual), etc etc).

 

And if you just want to apply the 4 "c"s (Composition(design), Construction, Character, and Condition), even that is subjective, as you really need a "bar" to rate everything by - is it relative to the others in the group,or the best examples, or...? (If its the latter, you have to consider the 5th "c" (cost) too...)

 

All that said, the 6 pieces I like the best, huh?  Barring seeing a few oblique shots and/or seeing them in hand I'd go with 1a, 7 (I'm biased), 8,21,22, and what, maybe 9?

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[kissakai]

Thanks for the replies as it does help me to looking at the tsuba in more detail

 

With thanks

Grev

[Bazza]

G'day Grev,

 

An interesting challenge!  I'm all at sea on "sukashi by photo" and there are just so many ho hum iron sukashi I wouldn't trust myself to have a pick.  This shows in my selection, which hardly anybody else chose except for #19 that had two other "hits".

 

So, I would keep 8, 9, 15, 21, 19 and 20, with a prospect of further winnowing.

 

50 tsuba.  WOW!  I was once told about an American collector who was visited by a knowledgeable Japanese collector and after going through a large number of tsuba the American guy was left with just a handful...  Possibly apocryphal, but I have seen a similar thing with over a hundred swords reduced to ten...

 

BaZZa.

[kissakai]

Hi Bazza

It may be Robert Haynes

He had hundreds and after discussions with a tosogu expert only had a few left

 

 

Grev

[rkg]

Grev/Bazza

 

Actually, that happens a lot - I know a number of people who have gone through this catharsis/ I wonder if it isn't a rite of passage sometimes.  The really unhappy ones are the people that paid bleeding edge prices for their pieces and now find that they 1) want to get rid of most of them, and 2)have to sell them at a small fraction of what they paid...

 

rkg

(Richard George)

Hi Bazza

It may be Robert Haynes

He had hundreds and after discussions with a tosogu expert only had a few left

 

 

Grev

[lotus]

7, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 19

 

Let me know if you decide to sell any of those!

[Blazeaglory]

I like #8 and 4a/4b

 

Personally, I would get rid of 6 and 10.

[kissakai]

I said this was just for fun but the response has exceeded my expectation and although there are only three tsuba I will move on that is a big step for me.

It is very difficult to do this from just images so again many thanks

 

Review

 

1a = Size 80 x 80 x 4.8 = 6 votes

 

1b = Size 75 x 73 x 5.3 = 2 votes

 

I would have thought these two should be kept as a possible Daisho and would have expected them to have similar votes

 

3 = Size 83 x 84 x 4.9 = 5 votes

 

Thanks to Curran I will take out 4a & 4b as not being Shoami

 

Number 10 I like monkeys so although it is not the best example I will keep it

 

Number 12 – I like the stylised clouds and waves so a keeper

 

Number 15

What you don’t see is a very nice dragon carved around the mimi which is rare so a keeper

 

 

Number 18 – Just a sucker for the stylised clouds

 

I like to keep tsuba that are papered as good reference material.

Also signed tsuba

Number 16 – Has papers so a keeper

Number 20 - Has papers so a keeper

Number 6 With a recorded mei (in the Haynes Index)

 

To move on

Number 5 – Move on

Number 11 – This is the one I was going to sell

Number 17 – Move on

 

I’d like to do the same exercise with my Bushu, ko Kinko, Tosho and the ‘unknown’ schools

It all depends if the members find this a boring exercise

[kissakai]

I should have added the table of votes so shown below

 

No   Totals
1a       6
1b       2
3         5
4a       2
4b       2
5        1
6      Sell
7       1
8       3
9       2
10   Sell
11     1
12     0
13    3
14   1
15   1
16   0
17   0
18   0
19   4
20   1
21   3
22   2