Which Kind Of Fabric For A Tosogu Box ?

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

Which kind of fabric should be used to make a tosogu/tsuba box ?

cotton ? synthetic ?

 

Thanks

 

Sebastien

 

 

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Sebastien,

 

I believe somewhere in the thread linked below you may find an answer, useful information.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18459-anyone-in-the-us-making-custom-made-fittings-boxes/

 

Generally speaking a stretch Japanese silk material is what I would be looking for. 

[Gunome]

Hello Franco,

 

Thanks for the confirmation.

I already looked a these tuto that are precious documentation.

 

Just one question, the custom shape of the tsuba is done in wood.

What about for a fuchi kashira ?

Wood also or cardboard or a kind of polystyrene ?

 

Thanks

 

Sebastien

[Guido]

Sebastien, this is the stuff I use: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B012NCWTL0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It's made of rayon, stretches nicely, doesn't do any harm to the fittings, and is much cheaper than real silk. However, it's a little thicker than regular chirimen, so it might not be ideal for intricate molding, like menuki.

[TETSUGENDO]

If you wish the best experience Silk is hard to beat, it conforms to intricate profiles (as Guido noted), has superior gluing properties, and is a joy to work with.  The best type is a matt Crêpe de Chine, of all weaves it is the least likely to catch on any slightly lifted inlays.  In the small quantities needed it is not all that expensive, and the finished product will warrant the extra expenditure.

 

-S-

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Franco,

 

 

Just one question, the custom shape of the tsuba is done in wood.

What about for a fuchi kashira ?

Wood also or cardboard or a kind of polystyrene ?

 

Thanks

 

Sebastien

 

Hello Sebastien,

 

We recently made a fuchi kashira box and used balsa wood (recommended by a professional) which can be found in block and sheet sizes/thicknesses, easy to work with.

 

Also, recently, I took a peek inside a Japanese custom made menuki box and it appeared that they used a luan sheet wood. 

[Gunome]

Many thanks for all the advices.

I now see which kind of fabric I need to found.

 

I will go near Montmartre, there is a many fabric shop with a huge choice. Otherwise I found a retailer of Japanese fabric in Paris, le Marais area.

 

I know basalte, I used it in aero-modelism when I was young.

 

I enclose pics to share my project with you.

Yesterday I found this box in a shop. Very cheap 2.49€ ($2..

It is made of paulownia and measure 11.5 cm square (same as my tsuba box)  and 10cm tall.

I would like to create stages for at least 3 tsuba and/or maybe for fuchi kashira.

 

Just to give you an idea, the tsuba Inside is 8.5 cm diameter.

 

 

[TETSUGENDO]

Sebastian,

 

Great find!  Looks like it will work well for your concept, awaiting your post of the finished project.

 

Bonne chance,

        -S-

[Gunome]

Many thanks.

I will keep you posted.

[1kinko]

Sebastien-

 

For tsuba you can use chirimen silk from used silk kiminos or furoshiki.  Both are available online and can be dyed easily.  This is pretty thick stuff and will do a good job of protecting the metal patina.  It is also easy to make into futons.  I recommend against balsa because it bends rather than cutting precisely and will not give a crisp edge to make a tight fit for the tstuba.  Try basswood as a closer approximation to paulownia.  Use a thin layer of thick rice glue as it is sticky and will form a good bond between the material and the wood (I press them together for about 2 h.  Use the cutouts from the basswood tsuba form to press the fabric into the sharp edges of the tsuba shape.) and will not bleed through to the surface.  Liquid glues will bleed through and produce an undesirable sheen on the surface.  For furoshiki chirimen you need about a 1 mm gap between the wood and the material.  The chirimen grain is usually horizontal.

[Gunome]

Hello,

Many thanks for the tips.

For the moment, I have nothing except the box. I need to buy the fabric and the wood. Then I could start to work on it.

I will share the progression on the board hoping that the result will not make me ashamed

 

Sébastien

[TETSUGENDO]

This Chirimen is the wrong weight and weave for the application.

 

-S-

[JohnTo]

The trouble with standard wood tsuba boxes are that they are quite large.  I have about 10 and I'm short of storage space.  I took delivery of 25 slimline tsuba boxes yesterday, cost less than 50p each.  I do need to fit linings in them and have not quite worked out the best way of doing that, but as the topic is 'hot',  I will probably cut out CD shaped liners and then cut out a profile of the tsuba. I thought that I should write now and share my initial experiences.

My tsuba boxes look remarkably like CD jewel boxes, which is what they are (make sure you get the 10 mm wide ones and not the thin ones).  I intend to put copies of my write ups of the tsuba in each case, just like the sleve notes of a music CD (I quickly printed out a rough version just to illustrate).  Just knock out some of the central spines to hold the CD and the tsuba is held in place.  And I already have a storage unit, just needed to through out some old CDs.

OK, not as elegant as the wood boxes, but a lot cheaper!

 

best regards, John

[Stephen]

Capital idea! John.

[Brian]

Has a ton of possibilities for those who are willing to deviate from tradition. Easy to store, easy to label....ready made storage units. Hmm....
Laser cut balsa wood inserts?
 

[Pete Klein]

Just a little reminder that the reason paulownia is used is that it helps to insulate from changes in temperature and humidity which helps to prevent condensation/oxidation.  Depending on the environment plastic could actually promote condensation inside the case.

[Stephen]

He can just store his magic wand in there as well.

[TETSUGENDO]

I was wondering how long it would take for common sense to prevail?  Three more reasons why plastic CD cases are a poor choice:

1- flimsy plastic offers little protection from accidental drops.

2-the relatively unyielding interior surface + grit = possible abrasion damage to soft metal tsuba.

3-The aesthetics are grim, I can't think of a more unpleasant experience. 

 

-S-

[Brian]

Add a wooden insert cut out, lined with silk or felt.
Not something for a mid to advanced level collection, but I can see a use for it easily for those bulk collections of entry level tsuba. Or dealer stock that doesn't have boxes.
 

[TETSUGENDO]

Some good thoughts Brian, but as the CD cases are problematical for so many reasons....best to nix them!  There are many better storage solutions availble if one takes the time to search them out.  Ultimately, the traditional Paulownia wood box remains THE storage of choice...for good reasons! 

 

-S-

[Mantis dude]

For those that are looking for alternative storage ways, I have found some useful items for jewelry storage. Some of the jewelry trays use a material that you can use Velcro to stick so that you can create custom dividers between tsuba or you might be able to find already divided trays. It has been years since I bought anything but finding jewelry case trays/ storage should easily be found online. I like to be able to pull a tray out of all of 1 school and easily look at them all at once. Just throwing out alternative options. I have seen some older more traditional multi tsuba storage box trays once in a while that are kind of similar to the jewelry storage trays.

Ken aka "the mantis dude"

[Tanto54]

Back in the 1970's, a friend opened his menuki kiribako to find that the little elastic bungee cords (that many of our menuki, kozuka and fuchigashira kiribako have) had caused a significant color change in the patina where it came into contact with his menuki.  Eventually, he discovered that it was caused by vapors from one of the chemicals in the elastic. Since then, I've heard or seen other horror stories related to incorrect glues or dyes that cause damage to tosogu.  In many areas of art, conservationists are careful to use acid free paper and special glues and materials to avoid ruining artwork (after years of exposure).  You should be careful experimenting with dyes, fabrics, materials, lacquers, paints, glues, treated wood, plywood (glued together...) etc. around your treasures....

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

Just to give you an update on my project.

I found a nice bleu fabric

I made the bottom floor for a tsuba and I am now doing a tosogu set floor.

 

Few pics to show you the first results.

[Kurikata]

Well done. I like the way the print of the tsuba is integrated in the plate. It will be probably more complex with a kiku gata tsuba ????

[Gunome]

Indeed Bruno, I chosen a marugata, more easy