Forging At The Toyama Ground

[vajo]

I search for informations about the forging contests on the ground of Toyama Mitsuru.
I would like to know which smiths take part on that genyosha meetings.

 

Thanks

Chris

[vajo]

The smiths i know are:

 

Shigetsugu (1 x Tanto, 1 x Katana)

Yasuhiro (1 x Katana)

Okimasa (2 x Katana)

 

[vajo]

For what i know was that Toyama Mitsuru (a samurai that fought in the satsuma rebellion?) held forging competitions nearby his house. The members of the genyosha meets him for discussion and orders to change the politics for installing a new feudal system in Japan and Asia. I don't know what is true and what was fiction. But it seems that a lot of important people of that time came to that meetings. As i saw for some times a sword of a member of the NMB which was forged there, i was deeply impressed on the mei of his sword and start collecting informations about Toyama. That genyosha or the dark ocean society was a secret club but not like secret we think. Many people knows about him. About that mystery forging on his ground is not to find anything in the internet and the books. So for me it is exciting to know what is the secret of this swords, why they are forged there and why some of the best swordsmith take part?

 

Maybe we can enlighten that mystery?

 

In some novels the genyosha is part of the story. You can find it in "call of cthulu", some thriller novels and battletech. On one site i found a story the genyosha hardned swords in blood and do some occult practice    So there is enough stuff for a true haunting story about the blades.

[DRDave]

Chris, I presume you've seen this site?  Nothing about competition, but perhaps gives an idea of who the participants may have been.

[vajo]

Thanks Dave i noticed it. Maybe here in the board are some collectors who have swords from the Toyoma ground? What does the signatures say?

[Bruce Pennington]

@vajo (by the way, is that pronounced the Spanish way - Va-Hoe-?)

Chris, came across this discussion Nick Komiya posted some time ago, where the Toyama School played a vital role on exposing the dire shortage of military swords:

 

SOS - Sword Out of Stock Alert

 

A good read for all WWII Military swords followers.

[vajo]

I was choosing my name as i register here on the board finding a name. On that time i had a notebook from Sony Type Vajo. Thats all the background  nothing special.

 

 

Bruce is the Toyama school the same forge as the private forge of Mitsuru Toyama? Mitsuru was the head of the genyosha. I know only from high class gendai-to which was forged on his ground from high rated smiths. The swords where given to members of the genyosha. 

 

So i'm a little irritated by reading about Type95 swords.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tōyama_Mitsuru

 

[vajo]

Here is an example.

http://www.aoijapan....ord/2015/15463-2.jpg

 

"Kasama Ikkansai Shigetsugu Saku Kore To-yama Mitsuru Teinai.
Showa 13 Nen 2 Gatsu Kichijitsu Sakai Ikkansai Shigemasa Horu Kore Showa 49 Nen 8 Gatsu Kichijitsu"

 

 

Some members here in the board are owners of genyosha swords forged by Shigetsugu, Okimasa, Kuniie and others. These swords are forged full traditional to restore the old samurai spirit and special signed.

 

The Toyama sword production was not on the same place i think.

 

I remember on a old photo with a garden view and genyosha members. In the background you see something like a small temple and a forge. On the picture a sword is dedicated to one of an official. I'm not sure but i think i saw this picture on Ed's website some years ago i took some research about the forging on the Toyama Mitsuru ground.

 

[vajo]

I think the Mannerheim presentation Tanto which Ohmura shows was also forged on the ground. 

 

[vajo]

Here some more swords i found with the mei "forged on the ground of Mitsuru Toyama" all of these have hozon or tokkubetsu hozon.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, vajo said:

 

Bruce is the Toyama school the same forge as the private forge of Mitsuru Toyama?

Sorry, all this is way out of my ballpark and I don't know.  Just came across the name 'Toyama' and assumed it was the same.  Might not be.

[vajo]

32 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Sorry, all this is way out of my ballpark and I don't know.  Just came across the name 'Toyama' and assumed it was the same.  Might not be.

 

It could be the same Bruce. But i didn't read anything about the production of non traditional swords or NCO swords around with the name of the founder of the Genyosha or Black Dragon Society. 

 

So Nick's post is a little strange for me who is the owner of the toyama forge. Was it Mitsuru himself or is this one of his companies? Did he had some companies? 

As i know he was a poor samurai who became a politician.

[vajo]

As a notice i didn't found a sword forged on his ground later then 1940. Mitsuru died 1944. The most swords where forged between 1933 - 1938 on the ground related to that stories around him and his politics.

 

There are some books about him but all of them are in Japanese. Some western writings on *.pdf sheets are shown in google but with a dead link. 

[vajo]

Found something more about Toyama Grounds. Toyama Grounds or Rikugun Toyama Gakko was as training academy of the IJA which was established of Toyama-ryu. The Toyama-ruy had 3 facilities located in Kanto, Tokei and Kansai. 

The main task was to train Japanese officers in Kenjutsu, iai-batto kata and tamashigiri. 

 

After the war the US Army build up in Tokyo on the ground of the Rikugun Toyama Gakka its Camp Zama.

 

Pictures

 

Here you see the camp zama from July 20, 1953.

The new buildings are from the US Army. The older one the original IJA Army training houses. The center building are made new because the original burned down in a fire. 

 

 

view on the village outside camp zama (toyoma grounds)

 

 

View outside the camp on the road to the village.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[w.y.chan]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:36 PM, vajo said:

As a notice i didn't found a sword forged on his ground later then 1940. Mitsuru died 1944. The most swords where forged between 1933 - 1938 on the ground related to that stories around him and his politics.

 

There are some books about him but all of them are in Japanese. Some western writings on *.pdf sheets are shown in google but with a dead link. 

Chris Bowen has a lot of info about Toyama Mitsuru and swords made at his estate. Toyama allegedly paticipated as a hammer man in the forging of some of these swords. The presentation sword made by Shigetsugu for Adolf Hitler was also signed as made in the estate of Toyama Mitsuru.

[Baka Gaijin]

This may be of interest

 

21 pages of Interesting Pre - War  Photographs of what became Camp Zama.

 

Courtesy of U.S. Army Japan Website

 

https://www.usarj.ar...1935_1945_202101.pdf

 

[Stephen]

Funny I just brought Chris's thread back to life in Shigetsugu thread.

[Baka Gaijin]

Synchronicity Oyabun

 

The images are very interesting.

 

If you go to the full site there's a whole section about how am important artifact was buried at the end of the war, for fear of desecration, and later discovered in the 1950's and restored by the US Army.

 

[Stephen]

4 hours ago, Baka Gaijin said:

Synchronicity Oyabun

 

The images are very interesting.

 

If you go to the full site there's a whole section about how am important artifact was buried at the end of the war, for fear of desecration, and later discovered in the 1950's and restored by the US Army.

 

Major sinus problems, waiting till I can actually read to check it out thank you Malcolm