O-Suriage Katana Kantei

[FletchSan]

Hi All,

 

A few images of a recently acquired o-suriage Katana with long bands of nie throughout the hamon and clear utsuri.

 

Out of polish, though hopefully enough detail in the photos for a few comments.

There are two attributions though interested in your thoughts as always! 

 

Nagasa: 67cm

Sori 1.9cm

kasane: 6mm

 

Ben

[Guest Rayhan]

Uda? Post Nanbukucho

[nagamaki - Franco]

Please, kantei begins with shape!

[Guest Rayhan]

Please, kantei begins with shape!

Meaning? You think it is Nanbokucho?

 

Allow me to be specific, early 1400's no later than 1470

[nagamaki - Franco]

Meaning? You think it is Nanbokucho?

 

Allow me to be specific, early 1400's no later than 1470

 

 

Sorry, my response was not in reference to yours. What I would please like to ask, clarify, is that whenever a kantei for nihonto is posted, the very first image of the sword should be the shape of the sword. Kantei is a very orderly stepped process for good reason. Thank you.

 

As for early muromachi, I would agree with that call, Uda as well. 

 

Skeptical of this sword showing utsuri.

 

Thank you.

[FletchSan]

School is correct !is it possible to order the photos you upload to NMB? I’ve always struggled with this and the order has been random.

[Guest Rayhan]

So it is Uda? But period is not muromachi?

[FletchSan]

Uda & Muromachi match one of the attributions - nice work.

[Guest Rayhan]

Thanks for the lessons, out of curiosity what was the other attribution?

[FletchSan]

The NTHK attribution was UDA Kunimune and the sayagaki was a little more ambitious - O-Sa.

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

[Guest Rayhan]

Whoooo! O-Sa! Either way, great sword!

[Prewar70]

It looks like the nakago has been cleaned some?

[FletchSan]

Darker patina at the bottom - I wonder if it’s a result of when it’s shortened or new mekugi-ana is added.

[Surfson]

Thanks for posting.  Are you saying it has papers to Uda Kunimume but a sayagaki to O-Sa?  If so, it would be important to know by whom these separate judgements were made.  Are the papers NBTHK?   Is the sayagaki by a Hon'ami or Kanzan, Kunzan, Tanobe...?  I have a few swords that once had big name sayagaki (unsigned, unattributed kantei expert) but then received a lesser name once going through the NBTHK.  I have learned to disregard sayagaki unless they are clearly done by an expert. 

[Surfson]

Looks like an interesting sword by the way.   Will you have it restored?  

[FletchSan]

Papers are NTHK-NPO and not sure if the sayagaki is by anyone of note? - Shuto Takeo Gentoshi, couldn't find anything about him.

[Surfson]

Sayagaki seems well worthy of further study.

[Guest Rayhan]

There is only one (some say 2) long sword examples of O-Sa in existence today and the one reference i see shows no signs of having the traits seen in this sword. Why would you say the sayagaki is worth further study? Or do you mean the person mentioned as the designator requires further study?

 

Also, if one was confident, why not do the sayagaki directly on the saya?

[Guest Rayhan]

Ok so since Bob put forward the prospect of Sayagaki being reasonable i have gone cockeyed (open to some jokes on that one) and looked at the sword again and again...could it be a Ko-Kongo Byoe?

 

I still would like to know if other members feel this is a Samonji?

[FletchSan]

The sayagaki translation for interest.

 

Sa

The hamon bases on suguha and features ko-midare, nioi-ashi, and nie. The bōshi is yakitsume and the blade is ō-suriage-mumei. This Sa lived in Chikuzen province and was called Genza. He was the son of Jitsu’a, a student of Masamune, and was active around Gen’ō (1319-1321).

 

I judge this blade as to be genuine.

The appraiser, at present in Kyōto.

Shutō Takeo Gentoshi from Shinbudō, resident of Sendai in Mutsu province + kao

[Vermithrax16]

Yakitsume boshi is not a Sa kantei point in the few examples I have seen. They feature a large kaeri that can run back a ways along muni.

[Surfson]

Thanks FletchSan.  Can anybody tell us anything about Takeo Gentoshi from Shinbudo?  Was he a legit expert with an opinion worth considering?  And, if so, is this a shoshin sayagaki?   Ray, this is what I meant about worthy of study, not necessarily that I bought the call of Sa.  

[Guest Rayhan]

Understood Rob and i follow you, but i am very interested in this stickergaki as it is unusual, and any idea when it was done guys? Looks fresh (in Nihonto terms)

[Jussi Ekholm]

I checked the long swords I have listed for Sa, I have 2 signed tachi both Meitō and one is Kokuhō. I have 4 mumei katana attributed to Sa, 2 of them Meitō and 1 Jūbu & 1 Jūbi.

[Guest Rayhan]

Whoa! Any pics? I know the first 2 are online, Both Marcus and Darcy have mentioned, sho-shin.com too. But tge others?!

 

Rob, so scratch what i said about the 2 only, apologies, learning something everyday.

 

Thanks Jussi

[Gakusee]

There are significantly more than two good long blades by Sa (Juyo and above). Great smith but probably not this blade

[Jussi Ekholm]

What Michael says is true once you go "down" in level from Cultral assets - Tokubetsu Jūyō - Jūyō, then there are starting to be many more attributed long swords to every famous smith. Maybe it has been written that there might be only 2 signed tachi by Sa?

 

Here is one Jūyō Bijutsuhin that can be found online as it was sold by Iida Koendo (I forgot it was named sword too but fixed that): https://web.archive.org/web/20120322134554/http:/www.iidakoendo.com:80/info/item/a369.htm

 

I've noticed I've started to have a personal preference for Sa school swords. In general they pretty much always have the strong Nanbokuchō sugata and wide profile even having been through suriage. Perhaps I might someday have a mid-late Sa school work in my collection (at least I can dream).

 

I think your sword would fit better to Etchū & Uda like NTHK attributed it to. There seems to be lot of activity going on in the blade, and the hada seems "rustic" to my eye. Could you post measurements for motohaba and sakihaba. Getting an idea of the width would help. I am also try to get an idea how much the sword has been shortened. If all of the original nakago has been lost it has been a long tachi.

[FletchSan]

Motohaba : 2.85cm

Sakihaba: 2.1cm

 

A few additional pics to try and capture some detail.

[Blazeaglory]

Great condition ! I'm jealous????????

[Jacques]

O Sa with so much large sunagashi ? Surprising.