Tom Darling Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Is the Shinsa Team on the up and up? I know of a mumei katana that was submitted in three shinsa's, each with different attributions. Conundrum? 1
ROKUJURO Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Tom,SHINSA results can sometimes vary depending on the sword. If it has more general properties, this can happen. Swords with specific attributes may be easier related to a school or even a smith.Japanese nouns have no plural form! 1
Katsujinken Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Modern papers from the NBTHK continue to be the most trusted and widely accepted around the world.
Vermithrax16 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Is the Shinsa Team on the up and up? I know of a mumei katana that was submitted in three shinsa's, each with different attributions. Conundrum? Not a straight forward question. Not a fair question. Was this sword Shinto or later? Signed? Then yes the results would be weird. If it's a Koto blade let me point you towards member Jean's Hosho/Tegai blade as an example. Not one to debate NBTHK but that's a Hosho sword to my eyes. 1
PNSSHOGUN Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 No, it's all a big conjob, you cracked the code! Don't tell anyone though. 1
Ted Tenold Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Is the Shinsa Team on the up and up? I know of a mumei katana that was submitted in three shinsa's, each with different attributions. Conundrum? Tom, your question is a bit vague in that there are several different organizations that conduct shinsa. Is there something that you feel would substantially legitimize any particular Shinsa team to you? Ask ten people, get ten views.
Brian Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Hesitant to even pursue this thread. No real point. Yes, they are legit. Yes, they are the best option we have.And with hundreds of thousands of smiths that existed, yes...it is obvious calls are going to differ unless the sword is completely unique. 2
almeister Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Vermithrax The word "mumei" means unsigned Which could possibly lead to a result in differing attributions Kind regards , AlanK
nagamaki - Franco Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Hello, Side stepping the question, the one comment I'd make at this point in time is that even a good sword that isn't properly prepared may end in disappointing results, multiple attributions. 1
paulb Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Following up on Franco's point with observations from my own expereince in helping with Shinsas in NTHK shinsa in the UK some years ago. At the first shinsa many signed blades failed shinsa as gimei. For the second people realised that if they submitted unsigned blades they would at least obtain a paper which for some (by no means all) at that time was the main goal. As a result there were a greater number of mumei blades submitted to the second shinsa. In addition the condition of many of these blades was to be honest borderline for submission. If you cant see the detail then it is likely the panel cant see it either. Their opinion is based on what they can see. On more than one occasion they gave an answer but with the caveat that if it were polished it could well be by a different and in some cases better smith. I believe that the condition of swords submitted in Japan is better than many seen at the overseas events. I would even suggest that we are more used to trying to find detail in less well polished blades. We also have much longer to look at them. Taking all the above in to account I think it is not surprising that different attributions can occur. As said above while not perfect the current system is the best available to us, could it be improved? yes of course but this will not be achieved by the Shinsa panels alone. Those submitting should ensure that when they present a blade for shinsa it is in the best possible condition and polish to enable the features to be clearly seen. If they do this the chances of accuracy would be greatly increased. 5
Shugyosha Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king. 5
Mark S. Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Those submitting should ensure that when they present a blade for shinsa it is in the best possible condition and polish to enable the features to be clearly seen. If they do this the chances of accuracy would be greatly increased. Only to point out the obvious Catch 22, I think many are using Shinsa to determine if a blade is worth the cost of polishing. And to the OP's question (which is vague on details)... it would also matter what the 3 different attributions were. Were the 3 close with regard to school/smith/style or where they wildly different? If the schools/style were similar and all have similar attributes (IF the condition allowed them to be seen), then it is quite possible that 3 different attributions are possible.
Blazeaglory Posted November 2, 2018 Report Posted November 2, 2018 Vermithrax The word "mumei" means unsigned Which could possibly lead to a result in differing attributions Kind regards , AlanK Which famous smith was it (multiple fakes) , who when shown a sword that was thought to be fake he replied, "It's my sword but not my signature!"
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