Tsuka-Ito Wrapping

[Blazeaglory]

Hello all. Does anyone have any advice on Tsuka-ito wrapping? I have some ho wood on the way as well as close American equivalent but i managed to shave a decent Tsuka from some dried oak (I'm not sure if that's the best wood but I'm using it to practice). So, I'm asking if anyone has ever done this or has any advice. I decided to use Same grooves as well to cut back on the destroying of wildlife. I'm even considering switching to synthetic Same but for some reason it doesn't feel right.

 

So please, I promised I wouldn't self polish any Nihonto but let me have this lol

 

Thanks in advance

[Ray Singer]

http://www.tsukamaki.net/tsuka/

[Geraint]

I can only endorse Ray's post.  If you intend having a go then this book is a must, actually I would recommend it to everyone for the information it provides.

 

By the way Oak is not a good idea.  Not sure if the same is true for American Oak but the European variety promotes corrosion of iron fastenings, in any case it is a lot harder.

 

Have fun!

 

All the best.

[TETSUGENDO]

All oak is acidic and should be avoided, not only can it corrode fittings it can damage ito as well.

 

-S-

[Mark C]

Hi Dwain,

 

I would stay away from oak.

 

I have used Honoki but also Tulip poplar as a last resort as honoki seems to be getting harder to get..

 

The book is worth every penny.

 

Good luck with the hishi-gami 

 

Mark

[Blazeaglory]

Thank you!

 

Stay away from oak. Got it. I'll read up on rays link as well.

[ggil]

I found a place to get American magnolia wood in rough cut 1” boards for cheap, but really it is probably best to buy honoki (Japanese white magnolia) over 1” rough cut boards because (maybe mine are shaky?) handsaw splitting 1” doesn’t give much room for error when later shaping takes place. So far I haven’t done much besides age it. I will send you some to play with if you want just PM your info. Can chisel both directions ok like honoki, and it is as soft as the tulip poplar you are experimenting with (but with likely less rust making properties like its Japanese cousin).

[kissakai]

As a start would it not be able to buy the tsuka that are worse for wear to practice on?

[ggil]

If I was going to try and carve out new Tsuka or saya, then I had better have some decent examples to study or a teacher, or both ideally! I have at least 4 different stand alone Tsuka to study, and have purchased old ones to steal the f/k from, but you gotta save the old innards to study and hopefully gain insights from.

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

that is no good idea as the wood of old TSUKA often has dried out and split and does not allow for a safe fit of the NAKAGO. Sometimes, when an old TSUKA gets a new ITO, it happens to be too tight for the NAKAGO.  

Making a new TSUKA is no witchwork if you know how and have the necessary tools. It is a precision work, and safety should always be considered, otherwise you have 'The house of the flying daggers'!. 

[Blazeaglory]

Yes thank you. I have several old tsuka for reference and some new I have bought but decided not to use. I have also been acquiring menuki, many different color of Japanese silk and cotton, and tsuba. Only thing I'm missing is a good fuchikashira set, as the ones I like are always too expensive. I'm hesitant to use real Same just because of the rate of destruction so I'm still debating.

 

I've been working with wood for many years now and although I'm not by any means great, I do have many tools and machines, as well as chisels and planer, etc... Plus my grandfather was a master welder and woodworker so everything is in my garage.

 

It isn't easy tho, so Ggil is mostly correct. But patience and proper tools help immensely. Along with the expertise on this website, I think it can be done. Roku is right tho as well.

 

Side note... I just bought some nice big pieces of tulip poplar, so if anyone needs any "strips", send me a PM and I'll see if I can make some available.

[Blazeaglory]

As a start would it not be able to buy the tsuka that are worse for wear to practice on?

Yah I have some already. They're made of oak tho and I don't want to waste any real silk/cotton so I've been practicing wrapping them with old "fat lace" shoe laces to get the technique down. Ive also been practicing using chisel and hand planer but oak is hard and weird at times to work with

 

As far as the actual carving and making of the wood, it's really not that hard if you're familiar with wood and the wood making process. Its just a matter of fitting properly and correct wood (as well as dryness)

 

That's the good thing about trades. They're kinda universal give or take certain trade secrets or similar. But that's not to say "its easy"

[ggil]

To expand on what Jean is bringing up, and to gain knowledge: are the F/K typically glued on or simply tightly fit? I have glued them when making a tsuka for a blade with very large motohaba and only regular sized katana f/k, when I consider the F/K to be more critical to safety. Otherwise I have only made a tight fit. I have seen glue remainents inside a Kashira (the tsuka had ito not just same) so I assume many were glued on...

 

I also bring this up to reiterate the old wisdom or never handling a blade roughly when it’s in shirosaya as the tsuka is only rice glued (maybe just the saya is rice glued?) has no f/k, or ito, etc.

[ROKUJURO]

Grant,

a good (intact) TSUKA has a tight two-dimensional fit to the NAKAGO. Japanese NAKAGO are technical masterpieces as they taper precisely in two dimensions. If a blade is 'set' in a correctly made TSUKA, you should be able to hold the blade tip-down without MEKUGI. You may try this at home if you trust your TSUKA, but be careful and put some blankets underneath to prevent the KISSAKI (and your floor) from being damaged. The MEKUGI does not secure the blade, but it secures the press-fit of the NAKAGO! This is why the MEKUGI-ANA in the blade and the MEKUGI-ANA in the TSUKA do not align properly! The MEKUGI has to execute some pressure on the blade to keep up the tight fit.

This is one of the reasons why older TSUKA are sometimes not safe for handling the blade, especially when the MEKUGI-ANA in the wood is worn out. 

Glueing a FUCHI (or a KASHIRA) seems very strange to me, and I have never seen that except in swords that have been tampered with by Westerners. However, I have seen paper strips in FUCHI for a tighter fit, but the TSUKA is mainly reinforced by the ITO.  

In SAMURAI times, TSUKA and SAYA have always been sword parts with limited life expectancy.     

[TETSUGENDO]

NO GLUE, EVER!  Anyone trying this project on for size will soon gain respect for Japanese craftsmanship.....nothing about this undertaking is easy!

 

Best of luck,

        -S-

[Blazeaglory]

Wow great info!

 

I'll say I'm taking my time and trying to use as close to traditional methods as possible. Definitely no glue. Unless it's rice glue wink wink but really I wouldnt consider using glue for the F/K unless it's really old and falling apart and then just a tiny bit of white or rice glue(I was told this by someone who makes shirasaya for a living) I always thought the wrap held on the kashira tight enough right? Well if done correct.

 

Also, the wrapping isn't easy. Just practicing is hard and very time consuming. I have no illusions of breezing through this. I'm constantly going back through videos and how to's, and now seeking advice (which has helped allot)

 

I wouldn't recommend this to someone with no woodworking experiences and even then, it's not easy. When I get frustrated, I take a break for a couple days.

[ROKUJURO]

Rice glue will work on wood, but not on metal.

[Blazeaglory]

Rice glue will work on wood, but not on metal.

Good to know.

 

The person who told me was referencing old tsuka ito that was ripping or fraying. He said to use white or rice glue to stop further damage and only in moderation.

 

Good idea or no?

[ROKUJURO]

Dwain,

if I had to do a similar work, I would be interested to keep all non-Japanese materials invisible. In this special case, I would try cyanoacrylate/superglue. 
Japanese craftsmen often use URUSHI as glue, when it is not visible. 

[Blazeaglory]

Dwain,

 

if I had to do a similar work, I would be interested to keep all non-Japanese materials invisible. In this special case, I would try cyanoacrylate/superglue.

Japanese craftsmen often use URUSHI as glue, when it is not visible.

Thanks. What about if a shirasaya sides are opening a bit? From mouth of shirasaya I just received, about 4 inches are not sealed together (using a rubber band to stop any further separation for now) . Rice glue? ?

[Brian]

Yes. Google or search the forum for shirasaya repair and you should find lots of info. But rice glue is the way.

[Andi B.]

Thanks. What about if a shirasaya sides are opening a bit? From mouth of shirasaya I just received, about 4 inches are not sealed together (using a rubber band to stop any further separation for now) . Rice glue? ?

I remember having read that split shira saya can be closed by moistening the gap (actually the dried and broken rice glue in the gap) and then by pressing the gap till the reactivated glue is holding again.

Rubber Bands can leave ugly marks on the wood if left there for years...

[Grey Doffin]

Better than rubber bands for holding a split saya together:  Cut a strip of paper about an inch wide and long enough to go once and a half around the saya.  Wrap the paper around the saya about 6 to 8 inches below where you want the support and tightly wrap the paper with masking tape.  Now, invert the saya on a table top and force the paper/tape band down towards the koi-guchi.  Since saya are largest at the koi-guchi, as the band is forced down it will get very tight and offer excellent support.  When the time comes for removal, shove the band the other direction and no evidence it was ever there will be left behind.  Multiple bands at different heights can be used on the saya and the same technique can be used on a tsuka.

These bands work well to hold the 2 halves of the saya in proper orientation when gluing with rice glue and I use a band around the koi-guchi of an unsplit shira-saya when I ship one, to lessen the chance that it split if the package is dropped.

Grey

[Blazeaglory]

Excellent! Thanks

 

I don't want to leave the rubber bands because I know they can get gross after a while. That's a very smart method!

 

Ok back to tsuka ito ????????

[b.hennick]

There is a product called pallet tape that sticks to itself like saran wrap. You can wrap things easily and tightly. It comes in different widths from about 3 inches to 18 inches. I find that the smaller ones work best for me. 

[Blazeaglory]

There is a product called pallet tape that sticks to itself like saran wrap. You can wrap things easily and tightly. It comes in different widths from about 3 inches to 18 inches. I find that the smaller ones work best for me.

Ahhh yes I know that stuff and now that you mention it, I remember that thread and have it saved somewhere.

 

It's s nice shirasaya too. Really smooth and nice stripped ho wood

[ggil]

Tsuka ito: best advice is in the book. Fred Lohman does ito, so maybe become pals and there you would probably get some really good pointers. Any taukamaki folks in SoCal that Dwain could meet? I don’t know myself. I know you need a blade section that includes a nakago and a few inches of blade, to make a jig with that will hold the work and allow you to easily flip-flop as you work one and the other side. Maybe a good way to deal with this Is to buy the cheapest blade (or lower section) you can so you can get your jig all set up. Maybe a cheap piece of steel would work but then you’d have to machine the shape prior to drilling the mekugi ana (multiple holes for various sizes) along the nakago, which is a P.I.T.A. If you buy an old Japanese blade part for this you may be amazed at how much work it is to blunt the remaining edge as some Japanese edge steel is freakishly hard.

[Blazeaglory]

Tsuka ito: best advice is in the book. Fred Lohman does ito, so maybe become pals and there you would probably get some really good pointers. Any taukamaki folks in SoCal that Dwain could meet? I don’t know myself. I know you need a blade section that includes a nakago and a few inches of blade, to make a jig with that will hold the work and allow you to easily flip-flop as you work one and the other side. Maybe a good way to deal with this Is to buy the cheapest blade (or lower section) you can so you can get your jig all set up. Maybe a cheap piece of steel would work but then you’d have to machine the shape prior to drilling the mekugi ana (multiple holes for various sizes) along the nakago, which is a P.I.T.A. If you buy an old Japanese blade part for this you may be amazed at how much work it is to blunt the remaining edge as some Japanese edge steel is freakishly hard.

Thick wire bent/formed and held in a vice but sometimes moves. The real item is expensive

[ggil]

It isn’t that much you can do it, and it will probably push the quality of your work knowing you have a traditional tsukamaki jig that stays put. also they are quite portable so you can repair a tsuka in a back bedroom of the in-laws house!

[Blazeaglory]

It isn’t that much you can do it, and it will probably push the quality of your work knowing you have a traditional tsukamaki jig that stays put. also they are quite portable so you can repair a tsuka in a back bedroom of the in-laws house!

I totally agree. Definitely on my list of things to get in the near future????