buying a shinsakuto

[myamoto]

Last may I was in Japan and visiting a swordsmith was very high on my list for a very long time so i did visit a smith

After spending a whole day tallking to him, see him at work, and having dinner with him and his appraissent/translator ( both are very nice person s) I decided to have him make a shinsakuto with oshigata for me.

What I would like to know is how one orders a handmade shinsakuto. I told the smith I would be honored if he would make a blade for me that would be exhibited on the annual shinsakuto event held by the NBTHK. After returning home I transferd 1/3 of the price into his bankaccount but I don't have anything on paper. Is this normal ( I understand completely that a Japanese swordsmith has his pride and his honor ) but for a western person this might seems strange. I also need something on paper for the customs I guess to prove the actual price when entering my country ( btw I live in the Netherlands )

Could anyone help me out with this

 

Domo arrigato

Marcel

[myamoto]

25 people seen it so far and not even 1 reply on my question??????????

[Brian]

Marcel,

Chill.

Your question is very specific, and relies on someone who has experience actually ordering a shinsakuto, and then also ordering it directly from the smith. Not many, as most go through an agent or dealer.

I personally see no problem. You will get an invoice when it is finished, and swordsmiths don't mass produce, so they wouldn't necessarily have a need for lots of paperwork.

If it makes you feel better, ask the smith if you could possibly get a receipt as you pay your partial payments.

Is the smith one of the members of the All Japan Swordsmith Association? (Link on the links page)

I assume you are in contact with the smith and can follow the progress? Either way, it si just a waiting game now until it is ready. I don't think there is any need for any concern.

Post pics of the sword when you get it.

 

Brian

[myamoto]

To Bryan: Thanks for your input. The smith is indeed a member and won the Doryoku-show in 2007

My blade, if it will pass the jury, will be on display in 2010 so I will have to be patient ( gives me time to save money for the blade and the trip as well )

 

Marcel

[Yoshii]

Hello Marcel,

 

I'm also living in the Netherlands and collects and study the Japanese sword for over 30 years now.

I'm a member of the Dutch Token Society and as so being active as the Mater of Arms in tne board of the society.

When you do get your shinsakuto, is it possible that you show it on one of our meetings

If you are interested in the Japanese sword you could take a look on our website http://www.to-ken.nl

 

Jos

[Ted Tenold]

Marcel,

 

I wouldn't worry. You visited the smith and made arrangements with him personally. He's a member of the AJSA and a competitor in good light. I don't see that asking for a deposit receipt will be any problem either if for nothing else than for for good finacial record keeping. Transactions by and between Japanese craftsman and dealers are done all the time on little more than a handshake (or should I say a bow). Personal introductions, good translators, and clear information are all helpful.

 

Yes indeed, be "Chill" :D

[myamoto]

To Jos:

I will get my shinsakuto, if all works well, in 2010. The smith already has an order for the NBTHK exhibition of 2009 so I have ordered mine for the year after. If the circomstances will be allright. ie. good tamahagame, etc

The swordsmith is a student of mukansa Kawachi Kunihira sensei, so I trust him completely he will deliver a masterpiece.

I would like to visit the to-ken meeting sometime since i am a real beginner on this ( although I wanted a Japanese sword for over 25 years now ) and the more input I can get the better it will be for me and my understanding for the blade.

I would be happy to show the blade on a meeting but we have to be patient.

I would also like to know more about declaring the shinsakuto into the Netherlands, maybe you can explain more about that to me

 

Regards,

marcel

[Chris Osborne]

If you wouldn't mind revealing the smith, is it Kiyota Jirokunietsu who is making your blade? He is a super nice person so I hear and makes beautiful swords. Congratulations on your future sword.

[myamoto]

To Chris Osborne:

The smith is indeed Kiyota-san, a student of mukansa Kawachi Kunihira ( of whom I have a signed copy of his very nice book ) and he is indeed a very nice person

 

Regards

[myamoto]

Brian, could you please tell me how I could get the shinsakuto out of Japan once it is finished. I know I have to wait for almost 2 more years

but i like to do my homework good. I know I can not take it with me out of Japan, but since I am buying it directly from the smith instead of through an agent i don't know ow i should get it into Europe with all the paperwork etc

Thanks for any input

Marcel

[Brian]

Marcel,

Check out the articles section of the forum. There is a very good article there by Guido on Japanese Sword Laws and Import/Export. That should explain the procedures. I assume the smith will register the sword and get the torokusho, and do the submitting of it for deregistration and export. Once that is done, you can take it with you, or have it shipped by your choice of shipping courier or EMS.

 

Regards,

Brian

[myamoto]

Brian thank you for pointing me into the direction of Guido's post. It is a good article with lots of information.

One thing I don't get though. I thought it wasn't possible to have your sword with you when leaving Japan ( either in the cargo space or in the pilot's cabin ) but after reading Guido's story it seems possible to leave Japan with the shinsakuto.

Marcel

[Brian]

I would expect that you wouldn't have problems if it was in checked luggage and you have shown the permission to export. However that would depend on the airline. Some might refuse to transport weapons, other might be ok with it. I have flown back with a yari in shirasaya in my luggage with no problems. Best to check with the airline beforehand, although you might want to call it something other than a "samurai sword" as saying no is easier than saying yes.

 

Brian

[Ted Tenold]

Japan Airlines (JAL) will *not* allow a sword in any luggage, checked or otherwise, or any freight containers either. They mandated this policy earlier this year. Other airlines may but you would have to check with your individual airline to verify.

 

Also make sure that when you purchase an antique, request a written receipt that states the item is more than 100 years old (if it is indeed 100 or more years old of course). This may save you some duties/tarrif when the item is inspected by customs upon return home. Since you are talking about a shinsakuto, this wouldn't apply and you will want to find out the customs policy for entry, VAT's, duties, tarrifs, fees, holding periods, etc., beforehand.

[myamoto]

Thank you all for your kind replys. I will check with the airline beforehand

Marcel

[quash27]

Since it is now 2010 I was wondering if you have recieved your Shinsakuto yet? If so could you post pictures? I am looking at getting a shinsakuto in the future also.

[cabowen]

If you need any help ordering a shinsakuto, let me know. I know several smiths and have ordered many blades for others over the years....

[myamoto]

To Brian, Chris and Ted:

 

It's been a while since I checked this messageboard and by now I should be happy owning my shinsakuto and placing pictures of it on this messageboard, but.....

Kiyota-san didn't do anything, so my worries I had back in 2008 about the first payment might have been correct.

 

Here I am, 3 years later having done a first payment in 2008 of Yen 400.000 and now left with nothing, emptyhanded

feeling sad and angry about this smitht's mentality and personality

This doesn't feel right.

 

I have given Kiyota-san 30 days to come up with a solution

or other steps will be taken against him.

 

I just had to let you guys know about this and I will keep this messageboard updated about the status

 

Regards,

 

Marcel

[IchiNi]

oh thats crap situation... normally, the Japanese dont act that way... wish you best of luck

 

vlad

[Brian]

Well..we don't know the other side of the story. But does sound like a tricky situation.

If it were me, I would consider one or more of several options:

1) Contact the All Japan Sworsmiths Association to see if they can mediate

2) Contacts Paul Martin and see if he is prepared to mediate or possibly assist with the above

3) Contact Pierre Nadeau, as I think he knows/knew this smith and ask if he can assist.

 

I am sure all is not lost, and you will come right. At least I hope so.

 

Brian

[Soulsmith]

Here's the other side of the story: exactly the same.

Kiyota has been extremely irresponsible towards his customers and myself, and this is very frustrating. I hope this story will have a safe ending (can't have a happy one anymore). He has made Marcel and myself loose face several times now, something 99% of Japanese would never do. I have been stuck in-between the conditions for the completion of my apprenticeship, and my responsibility towards his foreign customers, as the go-between.

I have now stopped believing Kiyota and am working with Marcel.

[John A Stuart]

I am very sorry to hear that, Pierre. Good to hear you are doing Ok in this horrible period, though. John

[FBJ]

Here I am, 3 years later having done a first payment in 2008 of Yen 400.000 and now left with nothing, emptyhanded

I been asking about how this turned out too. It's unfortunate that you haven't had anything completed in the the amount of time you've given the smith.

 

Hope it works out for you.

[myamoto]

To All:

 

On april 5th I have send a registered letter to Kiyota Hiroki's wife and explaining the whole situation and finally asking for a full refund.

The next day I received a reply by e-mail my money would be returned.

 

On april 16th the money has been returned into my account so for now I am a happy man, although I still don't own a shinsakuto.

 

Of course I would like to thank Pierre for his mediation in this unfortunate issue

 

Regards,

 

Marcel

[kusunokimasahige]

Great to hear that Marcel, happy you got it back. What you wrote however reminds me about something said years back by a professor in the Japanese Culture in Leiden who said the following :" Now do not be misguided by the apparent servile behaviour to their husbands of some Japanese women, it is they who receive the salary and keep the household, and they who decide what happens with the money. No matter what the husband seems to command"

 

KM

[hihiuu]

Hello, I know this doesn't really answer the question you have been asking but I have really want to ask you a question!

 

I am going to Japan at the end of May this year until mid-June and I am travelling all across Japan and I really really want to meet a sword smith. Possibly to buy a sword but in any case to just really visit the furnace and see the whole process. I speak very little Japanese but I understand it at a mediocre level. Could you tell me how I would be able to meet up with any sword smith, possibly the one you met. Could you give me his contact or any info or guidance would be great =D

 

THANK YOU in advance.