The Sensei Syndrome

[BIG]

Shibui swords article by Robert Haynes.

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/sensei-syndrome.htm

 

Best

[Soshin]

Never a sensei and always a kohai. 

[Pete Klein]

We are not sure who is entitled to be called sensei today. I do not have anyone in mind in the field of sword fittings, for unfortunately all those who might be called sensei today have not published any works on which their knowledge might be ascertained.

 

 

Ito Mitsuru san, Sensei

 

 

 

PS: to me the juxtaposition to the Tosogu thread is quite interesting.

[paulb]

I have always regarded the title of Sensei as a courtesy title given as a form of respect in a similar way to the terms Artist and Scientist. When self applied they have no real value. Likewise when used with too greater frequency, like so many superlatives in modern life,  they are devalued. 

There are those within our field of study such as Tanobe Sensei who have devoted their life to researching their subject and are recognised experts. These people fully deserve the accolade. 

Like David I regard myself as an eternal student and at the start of the climb rather than nearing the peak.

[Curran]

  On 10/13/2018 at 1:42 PM, Pete Klein said:

We are not sure who is entitled to be called sensei today. I do not have anyone in mind in the field of sword fittings, for unfortunately all those who might be called sensei today have not published any works on which their knowledge might be ascertained.

 

 

Ito Mitsuru san, Sensei

 

 

Ito-san doesn't seem to like being called sensei.

    I've tried it with him a number of times.

[BIG]

Other article..

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/nadakai.htm

 

Best

[Darcy]

Breaking radio silence for  this.

 

 

 

  Quote

Ito-san doesn't seem to like being called sensei.

 

Those that want to be perceived as teachers, including many hucksters who self promote their brands in the western world, are not teachers or remotely close. They just promote their brand.

 

The humility involved in saying "please don't call me sensei" is one of the  check boxes in my opinion for someone to really be a sensei.

[Pete Klein]

Yup.

 

PS: I would add Eckhard Kremers to the list of qualified.

[Curran]

  On 10/13/2018 at 7:02 PM, Darcy said:

Those that want to be perceived as teachers, including many hucksters who self promote their brands in the western world, are not teachers or remotely close. They just promote their brand.

 

The humility involved in saying "please don't call me sensei" is one of the  check boxes in my opinion for someone to really be a sensei.

 

Agreed. That was why I hung a lantern on it.

Pete is right in that Ito-san deserves the title of sensei.

[John A Stuart]

Does not using the appellation posit a formal relationship, but, used as a descriptor indicate achievement? John

[Guido]

Interesting article and topic of discussion. IMO, an excessive amount of conclusions is drawn despite the impossibility to consolidate Western philosophy and the proper use of the Japanese language. In Japan it certainly isn’t in the eye of the beholder, i.e. it’s not up to *you* to decide who “deserves” to be addressed as sensei based on your own parameters and/or the number of his publications, but you’ll find that there is a general, unspoken consensus on its usage. It’s these complexities that make the spice of culture what it is.

 

My advice: if you talk to a Japanese person in English, don’t use any Japanese honorifics at all. Mr. Satō, Ms. Nakamura, or Dr. Takahashi will do just fine. Mixing languages and randomly throwing in Japanese idioms usually sounds contrived, fawning, or – at worst – sarcastic. The latter is especially true for the honorific -sensei, but even worse is -sama if the person you’re talking to isn’t a customer/client, or a member of the imperial family.

 

If you’re able to carry complex conversations in Japanese, you probably studied the language well enough to know instinctively which honorific to use, and this entire discussion becomes moot. But still be prepared for nuance. Certain progressive people might ask to not being addressed as sensei although they commonly would be, but those cases are few and far between.

 

This may come off as overly negative to those well-meaning people who think that a little Japanese is better than none, and intend to be what they think is polite, but it really annoys me when people who have a very limited command of Japanese use what I call “Shōgun-Japanese”, i.e. it seems their entire Japanese vocabulary (hai, dōmo!) was gained by reading James Clavell’s novel. As entertaining as I find this author (I actually read all of his books), as cringeworthy is his use of what he thinks was sengoku-jidai period Japanese; or even its equivalent in modern Japanese.

 

Well, this was a run-down of my own take on the matter, and as with anything, it is all anecdotal. That being said, I hope it serves as a data point for those who are in doubt about how to properly address native Japanese speakers, or a wake-up call for those whose cognitive dissonance is strong enough to blind them to the very real cultural differences that indeed exist.

 

End of today’s rant.         And here's the flipside for your entertainment :

 

[BIG]

Mishina san or and Mishina sensei...

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/3266-mishina-honami-lecture/page-1

 

Best

[Guido]

  On 10/14/2018 at 8:03 AM, BIG said:

Mishina san or and Mishina sensei...

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/3266-mishina-honami-lecture/page-1

 

Funny, I had completely forgotten about that thread, but if anyone would dig it up, we certainly can count on you, Peter. 

 

Anyhow, it makes my point again - stay away from mixing English and Japansese, but if you do so, do it properly.

 

Btw, the emperor is addressed as heika, not sama.

[suketaka]

Hello,

 

for me, beside others, here in Germany Eckhard Kremers and the gone Michael Hagenbusch.

 

Michael

[BIG]

Thanks Guido that you count on me, thought it is helpful in the current discussion.

Anyone able to "dig up" Mr. Mishina for our value and the Boards best.

 

Best Regards

[Pete Klein]

Mr. Fukushi Shigeo also.  I knew I was missing someone quite obvious.

[Guido]

Taking things to the extreme: https://japantoday.com/category/national/niigata-school-superintendent-resigns-over-improper-use-of-Japanese-word-for-you?

[Pete Klein]

Guido - the unfortunate reality today is that many people forget a very good lesson from a very great master:  You who are without sin cast the first stone.

[SAS]

Just skip all that and bow down to Master Ken

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Well the "sensei" honorific can get out of control. At any large sword show if one says "sensei" loud enough, enough heads will turn so fast that a team of chiropractors will be needed.

 Arnold F.

[b.hennick]

In the martial arts, almost every black belt holder is called sensei by some students. When I was teaching karate and jiu-jitsu I was called sensei. I taught high school science for decades. None of my students called me sensei. Most called me Sir or Mr. Hennick. The only exception to that is when I was the staff sponsor of the school's martial arts club. 

With respect to swords, Arnold Frenzel, who wrote the post above was one of my mentors. I never called him or my other mentor Sensei. Arnold was a University Professor, and my other mentor is a medical doctor. In Japan, both professors and doctors are called Sensei. 

At sword shows, I learned from Cary Condel, Jim Kurrasch and Michael Hagenbusch. The three gentlemen have all died, I treasure the time that I had with them. They all were good teachers. I never heard anyone call any of them Sensei. 

Both Bob Benson and Mike Yamasaki teach at most sword shows. I have never heard anyone call them Sensei.