help needed with a mei

[b.hennick]

All help will be appreciated. I read the signature as Mitsumoto but could not find the smith.

[Bugyotsuji]

Mitsumoto on one side, and Naito on the other

[Nobody]

The inscriptions look strange and they may be suspicious, though I am not 100 % sure.

 

戸石合戦 (Toishi kassen) - The battle of Toishi - [村上義清 (Murakami Yoshikiyo) vs. 武田信玄 (Takeda Shingen), ca. 1550]

内藤 (Naito) - family name?

 

人馬トモ切落 (Jinba tomo (ni) kiri-otosu) - Cut off both man and horse.

光元 (Mitsumoto)

[Bugyotsuji]

Barry, you are asking this with no background information! This severely limits any information anyone might be willing to offer. Nobody (Moriyama san) has been very brave in giving you so much, IMHO.

 

The Nakago looks very 'new' to me, and I wonder why there would be not one but two Nakago-ana, both with the same colour inside. What is this, and why are you asking?

 

PS A question to Moriyama san. What is the character between 人馬　and 切�

[b.hennick]

First let me express my thanks to Moriyama san. Thank you for stepping forward where others did not.

I did not supply information as I posted to the "translation assistance" section rather than the "Nihonto" section of the MessageBoard. I struggled with this unusual mei and asked for assistance as I was asked by a person whose father got this blade during WWII. I was trying to help him. I have passed the information on to him.

[Nobody]

PS A question to Moriyama san. What is the character between 人馬　and 切�

Piers,

 

I really could not read the kanji. It could be æ°, but I am unsure.

[k morita]

Moriyama-san

 

Pronunciation of the 3rd character is "tomo"(元)

Meaning is both.

 

"Jinba tomo (ni) kiri-otosu" .

[Nobody]

Thanks Morita san,

So, can we think that the inscription may be genuine?

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you for the interesting explanation of the katakana 'kanji', Morita san! Were there other kanji created like this, I wonder?

 

Barry, please forgive my directness. One of the problems with the translation section is lack of background information and supporting clues, not necessarily photographs, which puts extra strain on anyone trying to help. I have mentioned this several times before in the last few weeks, but perhaps I am over sensitive, with too thin a skin???

 

Morita san, what do you think the inscription means? That this blade is certified 'able to cut down both men and horses'?

 

PS Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that the inscriptions were cut after the Nakago ana?

[Brian]

..I have mentioned this several times before in the last few weeks, but perhaps I am over sensitive, with too thin a skin???

 

Yep Piers..that one. :lol:

We understand that sometimes people ask for help with ulterior motives or commercial reasons, but it is in the minority and usually from new members. But from someone like Barry who is a true gentleman and a major part of the JSSUS, I never have a single fear.

 

Fascinating mei, I prefer a translation that leads to a good discussion. I look forward to hearing more about this one.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Bugyotsuji]

First of all, apologies again to Barry! Sorry!

 

No, I did not suspect you of commercial motives at all. It was simply the lack of environment and context that seemed to be holding people back from breaking the ice. Over 50 people had looked and passed when I took the first little exploratory step!

[Brian]

@k morita @Nobody Sorry to ask again, but seeing as the info got corrupted years ago, and this is an interesting sword, if either of you would like to post the kanji/info again as above, I'll edit the posts and correct the mess :-)

Thanks,
Brian

[Nobody]

On 6/4/2008 at 10:50 AM, Nobody said:

The inscriptions look strange and they may be suspicious, though I am not 100 % sure.

 

戸石åˆæˆ¦ (Toishi kassen) – The battle of Toishi - (æ‘上義清 (Murakami Yoshikiyo) vs. 武田信玄 (Takeda Shingen), ca. 1550)

内藤 (Naito) – family name?

 

人馬(�) – person’s name, or rider and horse???

åˆ‡è½ (kiriotoshi) –cut off

光元 (Mitsumoto)

 

Rewrite

 

戸石合戦 (Toishi kassen) - The battle of Toishi - [村上義清 (Murakami Yoshikiyo) vs. 武田信玄 (Takeda Shingen), ca. 1550]

内藤 (Naito) - family name?

 

人馬トモ切落 (Jinba tomo (ni) kiri-otosu) - Cut off both man and horse.

光元 (Mitsumoto)

 

 

Note; Imformation from morita san included

 

[xiayang]

Coincidentally, the same sword was posted on reddit a couple of days ago (including pictures of the blade and koshirae and a note from the person who purchased it):

https://www.reddit.c...vv/inherited_katana/

[Rick L]

That was me. I believe you pointed me to this site, and my post reanimated this older post where my father was indirectly trying to get a translation.