Tsuba input

[hkfan]

As I am new at this I am asking for your opinions on this tsuba. Is it original to my sword? What does the art represent? meaning? What is it made of? Thanks for any help. For reference this is the blade here.

 

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3266

 

Here is a scan of the front and back of the tsuba:

 

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ntback.jpg

 

 

Danny L.

[Rich T]

Hi Danny, this tsuba is actually quite old. This style of guard is commonly referred to as Kanagushi 金具帥 though it might be argued these days that they are Ko Kinko. I would probably date this tsuba from the Momoyama to early Edo period. The theme is Shishi (lion dog) and Botan (peony)

 

As to whether it is original to your sword, well there were quite a few Mino smiths working around that time that signed Kanemitsu so it is quite possible that this tsuba has been with this sword for many years, there is of course no way to be really sure but it is possible.

 

Hope that helps some

 

Richard

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Richard,

 

I'm not sure I would agree with you as to it being all that old. The nakago ana looks to be virtually untouched. Considering that it is such a soft metal I'd expect some sort of wear after 400 years.

 

The fact that the design is almost identical on each side strikes me as being odd too. I'd have thought that considering the relative complexity of the work, and design, that the back would be conceived in it's own right and not just be a repeat of the front. Taking the colour of the metal into account also, I suggest that this is a very late Edo piece.

 

Regards, Ford

[docliss]

Dear Richard

 

I am a little worried that, of late, Ford and I seem to be agreeing with one another. I, like him, can see no reason to label Danny’s tsuba as Kanagushi, although KÅ-KinkÅ might, perhaps, be considered as a possible attribution.

 

But the poor colouration of the metal; the repetition of an identical design on both sides of the tsuba - even the distribution of the nanako granules is identical; the lack of wear in the nakago-hitsu; the poor quality of the nanako and of the yakitsuke gilding; and the strange rim around the hitsu-ana all indicate indifferent work of a late period — possibly cast, and intended for export.

 

Regards, John L.

[Martin]

Hi,

 

I also believe this to be a later (shiiremono) work.

What makes me come to this conclusion besides the facts already mentioned are some parts that seem to have suffered some dents (see the picture). Maybe there are even some hollow areas under the surface

 

See this link for similar pieces: http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/tsuba/sanmai.htm

 

cheers,

[docliss]

Martin’s observation of the denting of some elements of the design on Danny’s tsuba is very astute. But is this really a sanmai tsuba? The edge seems to be a 'mimi' rather than a 'fukurin', and there are no indications of riveting on the seppa-dai. An inspection of the edges of the nakago-hitsu would surely answer this question, and I wonder if Danny can help us here?

 

John L.

[Ford Hallam]

I think by comparing the front and back, side by side like that, Martin, it is clear from the various minor marks that are the same that the 2 faces, front and back are stamped from the same die.

 

John,

I think that the rim that holds it all together is visible in the area I've circled below. It looks to me like a thin sheet that's been rubbed over.

 

 

 

I've just noticed that the corner on the right hand upper example is actually split, this would seem to confirm that the rim is in fact a fukurin. and not particularly well put together either.

 

[hkfan]

I would be more than happy to provide any other pics as needed. Let me know what views would you like. I will also scan the handle and other fittings when I have some time. Thanks for your help.

 

Danny L.

[docliss]

Danny, what we would like, in order to resolve the question as to whether or not your tsuba is sanmai (constructed of several layers of metal, sandwiched together), is either a photograph — technically quite difficult to obtain — or your opinion as to whether there is any evidence of layering in the raw edges of the guard which are exposed in the nakago-hitsu (the triangular hole for the blade’s tang). It would, of course, also be interesting to see the remainder of the mounts. Very many thanks.

 

John L.

[Bungo]

how about an angle shot of the nakago-ana and yhr kozuka hitsu-ana ( spelling ? )?

 

milt

[Jean]

Milt wrote :

 

"yhr kozuka hitsu-ana ( spelling ? )?

 

How do you spell "yhr" Milt, like in typo

 

It is unkind of me but I had a hard day

[Bungo]

i was picking my nose..........

 

milt

[hkfan]

I will try my best to accommodate when I get home this evening. Thanks for your help.

 

 

Danny L.

[Ford Hallam]

i was picking my nose..........

 

what with?...your keyboard ?

[Bungo]

ok, if you want the detail, I was using a kogai ( not the wari kogai ) with my right hand, and typed with left hand .Hence the typo..........geez.

 

milt

[Ford Hallam]

and I was just thinking you were using the ancient Hebrew spelling, ie; no vowels you scholar you

[hkfan]

Here are some more pics. I can attempt more but I cannot focus manually so this is probably the best. Without further hesitation:

 

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ord013.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ord014.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ord015.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ord016.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii13 ... ord017.jpg

[docliss]

Great photographs of the tsuba, Danny, and exactly what we wanted. It looks to me as though Ford was correct about the fukurin, and Martin about the sanmai construction – sorry folks. But at least we three agree, I think, that Danny’s tsuba is work of a late period.

 

John L.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi John,

 

I think this discussion is an excellent example of the value of this sort of on-line exchange.

 

and don't be too concerned about us agreeing on things like this too often...I'm bound to come up with some or other outrageous "theory" some time soon

 

Seriously though, I enjoyed the way the evidence was pieced together , it illustrates well the value of open minded, collaborative thinking.

 

regards, Ford

[Martin]

Hi John,

 

thanks for the great pictures.

 

And Ford,

 

Seriously though, I enjoyed the way the evidence was pieced together , it illustrates well the value of open minded, collaborative thinking.

 

nothing to add here

[Rich T]

I am happy to admit I was wrong, those last images sold me, as did the arguments leading up to it. An Edo period whatever.

 

Richard

[hkfan]

So this is still an antique (more than 100 years old)? What kind of value does a piece like this have? It was a gift but I like it anyways so it will be with me forever. I assume it is brass? I'm sorry I don't know all the terms yet. I still have yet to photograph the handle, sheath, and entire blade but will when I have time. Thanks again guys!!

 

 

 

Danny L.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Danny,

 

your tsuba is still antique. I think the general consensus is right at the end of the Edo period, late 1800's. It's possible that it's Meiji period but it would be very difficult to be so certain.

 

The basic metal is copper that I suspect it has not been very well refined. We tend to assess the relative purity of copper, and thereby its age, and possible cost relative to that period, by judging the colour of the patina. Again, not an exact science but your's is typical of the period we've arrived at. Purer copper had been available for at least 200 years by then so the use of a less well refined material must be regarded as an economic decision.

 

The million dollar question as to what it's worth is tricky...the easy answer would be; exactly what you can sell it for but I'd imagine about $100 ~ $150

 

Thanks for sharing this with us, I think we enjoyed it

 

regards, Ford