Can Anyone Translate This Tang?

[GrimesSU]

Can anyone translate this tang?

 

 

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi GrimesSU

 

I'll start the ball rolling

 

大

和

 

Yamato

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_Province

 

[mywei]

大和国吉行　Yamato kuni Yoshiyuki

 

the last 4 kanji look like 了記門山　?meaning

 

the signature may be cut off, and related to/imitating the Ryumon Nobuyoshi school. Ryumon Nagayoshi apparently signed 大和国吉行子竜門山本長吉作之 which has a lot of similar characters to this one

[GrimesSU]

Seller says it's a Shinto Blade 1600-1650.

 

Price is $1500.

 

 

More pictures.

 

Buy or pass?

[SAS]

Polish isn't that good, but overall blade looks ok, though it is machi okuri. Price seems in the ballpark, though better deals can be had from time to time, and swords in better polish with papers can be had for not too much more $$ from time to time.

[mywei]

If it is really a Ryūmon school blade it would be around late Kamakura, which I'm pretty sure this is not (I may be wrong ofc)

[Ray Singer]

If this were a real, signed, suriage Ryumon the answer would be an emphatic yes. The mei is definitely not authentic though. Compare below. I do not have an oshigata of his nagamei (大和国吉行子竜門山本長吉作之).

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/yam3.htm

 

 

 

Buy or pass?

[GrimesSU]

Is it still worth buying as-is and is the sellers dating correct?

 

As I'm looking for a good shape blade from the 1600s, but in gunto mounts like this one.

[Ray Singer]

Not sure that I would consider this one to be in good shape and think it's worth considering what you would have spent if your intention is to have the sword restored. It is (I agree with the seller) a probable Shinto blade of unknown quality and a likely gimei signature. After polish, shirasaya,removal of gimei/restoration of the nakago, tsunagi and shinsa you would have spent multiples of the original investment in the sword and could likely have bought a very nice papered and flawless blade for less (compare with the wonderful Kanenobu which sold here recently). IMHO, its at least worth holding out for something which does not require restoration and can be enjoyed in its current state of polish.

 

 

I'm looking for a good shape blade from the 1600s, but in gunto mounts like this one.

 

[GrimesSU]

Not sure that I would consider this one to be in good shape and think it's worth considering what you would have spent if your intention is to have the sword restored. It is (I agree with the seller) a probable Shinto blade of unknown quality and a likely gimei signature. After polish, shirasaya,removal of gimei/restoration of the nakago, tsunagi and shinsa you would have spent multiples of the original investment in the sword and could likely have bought a very nice papered and flawless blade for less (compare with the wonderful Kanenobu which sold here recently). IMHO, its at least worth holding out for something which does not require restoration and can be enjoyed in its current state of polish.

 

Not sure I'd get it fully polished and restored as I'm not looking for an "art" sword. I'd be getting it for its military history.

 

Maybe eventually a partial "clean-up" polish to bring out the hamon more if I decide to get it though.

 

 

I'm waiting on a few questions I asked the seller before I decide.

[GrimesSU]

The seller got back to me.

 

He said it is signed  大和国吉行子竜門山本長吉作之 and dated 元年丙寅十月十一日.

 

 

Can anyone translate that?

[mywei]

I'm not sure what this particular seller is trying to do.... it seems that you are trying to find reasons to buy this despite Ray's reasonable advice

 

in your very first picture, you can see 9 kanji characters. The last one ends in '山'. Your seller is claiming that is in fact a 14 character rare signature of Ryumon Nagayoshi, a Yamato smith from the 14th century, which is blatantly not true - just compare the signature the seller provided with the picture if you do not believe me

 

the date signature does not make sense to me either. 元年 means 'first year of', 丙寅 or 'kinoe tora' is a part of 60-year east asian zodiac cycle. Neither of these make sense without an era name. It essentially translates to 'October 11th, first year of _____ kinoe tora'

 

I'd stay clear of this one tbh

[GrimesSU]

I'm not sure what this particular seller is trying to do.... it seems that you are trying to find reasons to buy this despite Ray's reasonable advice

 

in your very first picture, you can see 9 kanji characters. The last one ends in '山'. Your seller is claiming that is in fact a 14 character rare signature of Ryumon Nagayoshi, a Yamato smith from the 14th century, which is blatantly not true - just compare the signature the seller provided with the picture if you do not believe me

 

the date signature does not make sense to me either. 元年 means 'first year of', 丙寅 or 'kinoe tora' is a part of 60-year east asian zodiac cycle. Neither of these make sense without an era name. It essentially translates to 'October 11th, first year of _____ kinoe tora'

 

I'd stay clear of this one tbh

 

Ray's advice was to pass on it if I was looking for an "art" sword.

 

I'm not looking for a $3000+ papered and flawless blade.

 

 

Gimei and non-papered swords do not bother me, as long as the sword is of good quality, and is of the age/era I am looking for.

 

I simply asked if it is good for what it is.

[vajo]

Look for a nice gendaito in some good polish. That sword is not very pleasent in my eyes. You see no hada, no hamon. They mei is curious and dont fit to the blade. If you buy it you will not have fun with it. My thoughts. What history you will find in that sword. It is an old blade in Gunto mounts? The Koshirae is not in mint condition. For me it looks like build from different parts.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Mike, take a look at the boshi - something isn't right. The blade is machi-okuri. The polish isn't. And, if you're looking for REAL military history, buying a Shinto blade misses the times when most of the fighting went on. You should be looking for blades from Nambokucho through Muromachi, when fighting seldom stopped.

 

Add to that the seller's obvious sales push, & I strongly suggest passing on this one.

 

Check out the For Sale section on NMB. You can be fairly sure that any blade posted there will be shoshin, & probably a better deal than you can get most places.

[GrimesSU]

To update this, I didn't buy it.

 

I asked for closer pictures from the seller, and the closer pictures showed it not to be that good.

 

 

Pretty much no hamon can be seen, and looked like someone tried to polish it as there were many fine scratch lines.

 

 

 

[Ray Singer]

FWIW, the hamon / boshi is visible in those photos but as I said earlier it is poor condition and cannot be enjoyed and its current state. I feel you made the right choice passing on this one...

[Jon MB]

What helpful fellow forum members.