The Art Of Selling Art

[ken kata]

Hello Guys..

 

"Let the Buyer Beware" > The Sting 

 

I thought I was going to be a Proud owner of a Genuine Tomoo Hamada Yunomi.. 

I wanted to be the 1st. to "Buy it Now" ..

 

"If it's too good to be true, it probaly is"..

 

The price was "Affordable"..

but, the Yunomi was "Mumei".. 

 

I follow Tomoo on FB, so, I asked him,  if this was his "Yunomi"..

 

He said, the box is his, but, the Yunomi  is not.

 Old American Saying.. " I'm glad I asked"... 

 

Well, the Seller's tittle is true :

 

"Japanese Mashiko pottery Yunomi Bamboo Tea cup with box by Tomoo Hamada"

[Brian]

Sneaky title! Wonder if that was deliberate. Hmmmm

[TETSUGENDO]

Let's call this cunning listing opportune.  Bargains and fortuitous buys, although rare do exist.......A good reminder to all Alton, something as simple as a question can be an effective defense against deceit.  As you said "Caveat Emptor".

 

Cheers,

    -S-

[Fuuten]

Depending on the seller, i would contact him or her and try to return it.. Unless you're happy and like it, but still not very honest.

[ken kata]

Hi guys..

Hi Alex,       I did not buy it.

I was going to buy it..

Waited for his reply, before buying.

 

I should have mentioned, something else, in the 1st. post,

So, I can understand the "negative" cannotation because of that.. 

 

Maybe that is how he/she bought it, and, is just a seller.

 

" Sneaky title! Wonder if that was deliberate. Hmmmm " - Mr. B   

 

I've seen some other listings, that have...

 

" with signed box, and, Monk Appraisal, by the great --------"...

 

I got one with a name like, " The 1000 year old Pine Tree." ( or something like that)..

The Chawan had no Green on it..  

[Fuuten]

I got one with a name like, " The 1000 year old Pine Tree." ( or something like that)..

The Chawan had no Green on it..  

Now that i could understand. Names are often not that cut and dry, especially if some head-monk inspected and named it. In those cases i feel its more about the feeling a bowl gives (and in some cases a way for a monastery and/or shrine to create some extra income).

 

But on topic, sure its understandable that a seller would list something, but in this case I would be interested to see if the auction is updated and corrected after communicating said correction. Then again, generally it comes down to buyers beware.

 

Also now that i think about it, it wasn't long ago that i caught the Mashiko bug. I'm fortunate to own 2 pieces by Takeichi Kawai, a nephew of Kanjiro Kawai who like Shoji Hamada initiated the movement. But before having those chawan in my hands i wasn't enticed by Mashiko ware at all; but now i admit they have a certain charm.

 

If you don't mind i can add pictures of the 2 bowls.

[ken kata]

  Axel..

 

and, yes, you can..

 

Or ..   .. As Brian says .. " Post away..."  

 

Exposure to Names and seeing thier works, lets us get familar ,so, we can recognize their familly, and, know more about Japanese Ceramics.

 

Thanks..

[Fuuten]

Both are by Takéichi Kawai.

 

This one is entitled mentori porcelain chawan (chamfered shape). This one especially feels almost like a grail. The color is a slight light blueish hue (in the photo it looks almost white).

 

 

And this one is titled after the blue glaze, a zaffer tea bowl.

 

 

 

 

Edit: and as it sits on my shelves

 

 

And a personal favorite of mine, a utsushi - replica of a chawan by Honami Koetsu (iirc), by the sandai Shoraku Sasaki. This one fits especially well with the little woodworking platter underneath.

 

[ken kata]

Oh... 

 

    $ .>>>>>>>>$$

  ^ me               ^  You 

 

I shop at e-bay.

 

You shop here   : 

 

 

https://www.2000cranes.com/Kawai-Takeichi.html

 

and :

 

https://www.2000cranes.com/index.html

 

Welcome to 2000 Cranes

 

Exquisite Japanese pottery & porcelain
from the finest ceramic artists

[Fuuten]

Well i must say these actually came from Ebay. But they don't come up very often.

 

I also must admit that i have bought from 2000 cranes; a yunomi by Suzuki Tomio. Only because i couldn't stand not having one of this works.

 

Just for fun this is the yunomi:

 

 

 

 

 

PS: that website on Musashi is really cool. I'll have to go and see if i can get my hands on that list. The 2003 movie really looks like Musashi as portrayed in Vagabond (manga).

[Peter Bleed]

Among my disorganized reactions to this thread is the crass curiosity if this is the moment to sell our Hamada (Shoji) pots. Is that market passed and dead? Does anybody even know who he was?

Peter

[ken kata]

Thanks for posting that Aexl. 

This Mizusashi has that kind of big lumpy Glazing too .. 

 

Peter, 

I posted about the gunomi that was in someone else's Tomobako (Wooden Box).

just for the forum to see.

 

There is always a market for Shoji Hamada's works.

There's a Shoji Hamada Plate going for about 600 now..

and,

Phil Rogers ( of Goldmark) has a FB Page (Japanese Ceramic Collectors) that keeps the late Shoji Hamada's Legacy going..

There are many people that are still interested and following his works.

I believe , if you post there, you will get a lot of people seening them..

 

 

His son  Tomoo, just put on a beautiful Exhibition at the Hanku Department Store..

 

A brief note about Shoji Hamada..

From 2000 Cranes site:

 

In the late 1920's in Japan, a small group of artists started the Mingei, or, "Folk craft" movement.

It was a reaction to what they saw as the increasing threat of Industrialization upon traditional, handmade crafts. For them, modern society's eye for beauty in simple untesils for daily life was becoming blinded by low cost and standardization.

 

So, a group of potters, including Benard Leach, Hamada Shoji, and, Kawai Kanjiro, sought to keep the craftsman sprit alive by producing everyday objects which satisfied the practical as well as the spritual needs of life. The works they made were funtional, expressive, yet, unassuming.

As a matter of principal, Mingei wares were hardly ever signed. "  -  from 2000 CRANES

[ken kata]

on a previous note:

 

Here is the Chawan with Temple/Priest Appraisal..

[TETSUGENDO]

Beautiful things all!  I remember seeing an excellent NHK program on the Mingei movement, perhaps its availble for viewing. Shoji Hamada's luminary status is well established, his works are highly desired,  anyone with the good fortune of ownership can relax and.enjoy the comfortable glow while congratulating themeselves on their cleverness.

 

-S-

[sabi]

Good job not falling into that trap, Alton.  You'll see this is a lot unfortunately, and it's relatively common with big names.  I had been on the lookout for a quality Bizen piece recently, and using the Fujiwara family as an example, there must have been at least a dozen fakes for every legit one.  Continue to be careful and do your homework.

 

Additionally, when you have a signed box but a "mumei" vessel, it screams fake.  Virtually all modern potters who are well known enough to sell their wares will have some form of signature.  Buying from reputable dealers is always preferred, but that's not to be confused with anything on eBay in general.  There are several good sellers there that list quality pieces, know what they have and won't risk their name trying to play games with buyers who don't know any better.  

[ken kata]

Hi Evan..

Thanks..

Nice to see you

 

Good " Words of wisdom " about "assuming" contents in signed boxes..

A potter's  "signature" ( His writings) or Family Kiln Stamp/Markings are  always ( Most times) re-assuring..

 

Guys, try looking at the photo below,  of Family/kiln Stamp/marks..

sometimes, the area where the Seal is "Stamped", the material looks a bit different than the sourounding/adjacent surface.

some, look like there was a dab of "Heavry Body" Acrylic in the spot, and, re-stamped..

 

I was going to buy the Red Glaze Kichizaemon Chawan, but,  was not sure of the seal.

and, it was " 1/2" priced.

.

The Black Glazed was bought from a "reputable" person..   I paid a lot..    >   

 

 

Thanks for posting and viewing guys..

 

Alton < The Dagashi Samurai

 

 

 

 

 

[Fuuten]

Additionally, when you have a signed box but a "mumei" vessel, it screams fake.  Virtually all modern potters who are well known enough to sell their wares will have some form of signature.  Buying from reputable dealers is always preferred, but that's not to be confused with anything on eBay in general.  There are several good sellers there that list quality pieces, know what they have and won't risk their name trying to play games with buyers who don't know any better.  

WIth exceptions like Mingei were often the works were traditionally unsigned. But really then it comes down double hard on the homework.

 

And on the other side many imitations exist in for instance the Kichizaemon family (especially Ryonyu).