k morita Posted September 12, 2019 Report Posted September 12, 2019 A minor update on the Mantetsu mei dateline. I've found a '39, chopped to waki size, but having bothe the Dalian Railway Stamp AND the Koa Isshin mei. It's a Spring of '39 so there might have been a transition early in the year where both appeared together. So for now, here's the mei timeline: Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example] Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example] Do you have the pic? Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 12, 2019 Author Report Posted September 12, 2019 Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example] Do you have the pic? Moritasan! It is an honor. I enjoyed your chart Ohmurasan used on his site! I found this in a collection owned by Beng Chua of Singapore. Here is his page on this one: http://www.kinghouse.sg/collections_frame.asp?cat=8 It came with a general grade tassel (I know,this could have been added later). Here are the pics: 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted September 12, 2019 Report Posted September 12, 2019 Added later and it's a replica. Quote
k morita Posted September 12, 2019 Report Posted September 12, 2019 Hi, Thank you very much for the pics and the link.I knew this sword for the first time by your posting.Konan-Issei sword is extremely rare. I ordered a book described about this sword to a secondhand bookstore today, so we'd be able to get some information later. 4 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 Hi, Thank you very much for the pics and the link. I knew this sword for the first time by your posting. Konan-Issei sword is extremely rare. I ordered a book described about this sword to a secondhand bookstore today, so we'd be able to get some information later. That’s great news, thank you! I’m anxious to hear what it says. It’s very good to just know that it’s mentioned in a book. It’s the first not 1945 Mantetsu blade I’ve seen. Quote
Kiipu Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 A minor update on the Mantetsu mei dateline. I've found a '39, chopped to waki size, but having bothe the Dalian Railway Stamp AND the Koa Isshin mei. It's a Spring of '39 so there might have been a transition early in the year where both appeared together. So for now, here's the mei timeline: Showa 13 (1938) Winter - Dalian Railway Stamp; no mei Showa 14 (1939) Spring – Dalian Railway Stamp; 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄作之 (Mantetsu Saku Kore) By Dalian Railway Stamp, do you mean the South Manchuria Railway (SMR) company logo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Manchurian_Railway Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 14, 2019 Author Report Posted September 14, 2019 Posting the latest version of my Mantetsu Study document for anyone interested. I'm hoping someone with an eye for detail might see something interesting that I have missed. Let me know if you do! Not much new lately. Over 160 blades. 60 of the serial numbers are in the "A"s. Some years have obvious groupings, some are all over the place. mantetsu serial numbers (1).pdf 1 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 14, 2019 Report Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Japanese army ordnance usually used the iroha (いろは) poem ordering system and not the gojūon system for subassembly numbers. They would start with イ1 and go up to イ999. After that, they would start with ロ1 and then go up to ロ999. After using all the katakana characters in the iroha poem, they would switch over to hiragana characters and start all over again! This back and forth between katakana and hiragana would continue until production ended. iroha = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroha gojūon = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojūon What I find most interesting about your recent Mantetsu 3.0 update is that the 1939 swords appear to be following the iroha order! I would suggest reexamining your data in light of this and see what happens. See below for the iroha order starting with 1939 and going into 1940. The seasons appear to match up so far. 1939 イ 376-S イ 466-S ロ 75-S ニ 190-A ニ 675-W ホ 123-W 1940 ホ 538-S ト 41-S ト 374-S ト 450-S ト 630-S ト 729-S Edited September 14, 2019 by Kiipu 2 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Moritasan! It is an honor. I enjoyed your chart Ohmurasan used on his site! I found this in a collection owned by Beng Chua of Singapore. Here is his page on this one: http://www.kinghouse.sg/collections_frame.asp?cat=8 Is this 1945 Mantetsu number い 622? い = Hiragana i. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-9?do=findComment&comment=302139 1 Quote
k morita Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Posting the latest version of my Mantetsu Study document for anyone interested. I'm hoping someone with an eye for detail might see something interesting that I have missed. Let me know if you do! Not much new lately. Over 160 blades. 60 of the serial numbers are in the "A"s. Some years have obvious groupings, some are all over the place. mantetsu serial numbers (1).pdf Hi, S/N of Mantetsu sword was using iroha poem. It isn't a,i,u,e,o order.(But, when it was test making in an early stage, ABC was used.) S/N starts from i,ro,ha,..... i 1,2,3・・・ro 1,2,3・・・ ha 1,2,3・・・ ・ ・ ====== Iroha poem =====イ (i) ロ (ro) ハ (ha) ニ (ni) ホ (ho) ヘ (he) ト (to) チ (chi) リ (ri) ヌ (nu) ル (ru) ヲ (o) ワ (wa) カ (ka) ヨ (yo) タ (ta) レ (re) ソ (so) ツ (tsu) ネ (ne) ナ (na) ラ (ra) ム (mu) ウ (u) ヰ (i/wi) ノ (no) オ (o) ク (ku) ヤ (ya) マ (ma) ケ (ke) フ (fu) コ (ko) エ (e) テ (te) ア (a) サ (sa) キ (ki) ユ (yu) メ (me) ミ (mi) シ (shi) ヱ (e) ヒ (hi) モ (mo) セ (se) ス (su) end. 8 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 15, 2019 Author Report Posted September 15, 2019 Is this 1945 Mantetsu number い[/size] 622?[/size] い[/size] = Hiragana i.[/size][/size] Excellent, Thomas! I was trying to find katakana that fit, but it wasn't working out right. You've nailed it, thanks! 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 15, 2019 Author Report Posted September 15, 2019 Hi, S/N of Mantetsu sword was using iroha poem. It isn't a,i,u,e,o order. (But, when it was test making in an early stage, ABC was used.) S/N starts from i,ro,ha,..... i 1,2,3・・・ ro 1,2,3・・・ ha 1,2,3・・・ ・ ・ ====== Iroha poem ===== イ (i) ロ (ro) ハ (ha) ニ (ni) ホ (ho) ヘ (he) ト (to) チ (chi) リ (ri) ヌ (nu) ル (ru) ヲ (o) ワ (wa) カ (ka) ヨ (yo) タ (ta) レ (re) ソ (so) ツ (tsu) ネ (ne) ナ (na) ラ (ra) ム (mu) ウ (u) ヰ (i/wi) ノ (no) オ (o) ク (ku) ヤ (ya) マ (ma) ケ (ke) フ (fu) コ (ko) エ (e) テ (te) ア (a) サ (sa) キ (ki) ユ (yu) メ (me) ミ (mi) シ (shi) ヱ (e) ヒ (hi) モ (mo) セ (se) ス (su) end. Moritasan and Thomas - this is exactly what I needed. I needed someone who could see the data through the eyes of Japanese culture, not my American perspective. Now I have some work to do! 2 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 To insert hiragana and katakana characters in Microsoft Word documents. Open a MS Word document and click on the "INSERT" tab in the menu bar. Go to the far right and locate the Symbols box in the toolbar and click “Symbol”. From the drop down menu, click “More Symbols…”. A window should open called "Symbol", it should open in the Symbols tab. On the top left side you should see "Font", type in MS Mincho and press the Enter key [or one can use the drop down menu and scroll down and select it]. On the top right hand side of the Window you will find a box called "Subset". Click on the drop down menu until you find "Hiragana" or "Katakana" and click on the one desired. Hover you mouse over the character you want and click it. The box should turn blue. In the lower right corner of the window, click "Insert". The character should appear in your document. You can also cut and paste this character from your MS Word document into your NMB posts as well. Enjoy as this is the easy part! Wait until one starts inserting kanji. 3 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 John, thanks, that's "SE" 72 Is the nakago too rusty to get the date? Post #14 The katakana character is YA and not SE. ヤ 72. According to your table, this would date to 1942, possibly autumn. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-1?do=findComment&comment=264433 2 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 2 of mine. Post #36. The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ). This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. (イ) 1644 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357 Post #141 And another one! (イ) 556 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859 2 Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Typo in database. ケ731 and not KU731-S. ケ = katakana KE. https://japanesesword.com/archived-pages/2017/7/28/mantetsu-to-in-34-pattern-shin-gunto-mounts-hit-in-the-fuchi-by-bullet Post #217 Is this one missing from the database? http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-8?do=findComment&comment=293774 1 Quote
Brian Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Thomas, Morita san and Bruce, fantastic work! 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 15, 2019 Author Report Posted September 15, 2019 Post #36. The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ). This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. (イ) 1644 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357 Post #141 And another one! (イ) 556 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859 Fabulous Thomas, thanks for the corrections! Can you explain the significance of the parentheses? 1 Quote
16k Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 With you guys, this topic is making giant’s leap progress all of a sudden! You guys and you Bruce should go done in history! Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 15, 2019 Author Report Posted September 15, 2019 Typo in database. Post #217 Is this one missing from the database? http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-8?do=findComment&comment=293774 Good catch! I had saved the pictures but failed to chart the number. I’ll be traveling today and will make all the corrections afterward. Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Bruce Here is one more for you. 昭和庚辰秋（1940 Autumn）,興亞一心，滿鐵作之。才（0） 一一一（111）. 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Post #14 The katakana character is YA and not SE. ヤ 72. According to your table, this would date to 1942, possibly autumn. Thank you so much, I'm so glad this table exists so swords like mine with rusted dates can be identified. 1942 fits in with the Koshirae as well. Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 Post #36. The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ). This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. (イ) 1644 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357 Post #141 And another one! (イ) 556 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859 Cool!That (イ) 1644 is mine Quote
TangYi Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 An encyclopaedia indeed, let me post mine when I am back from travel..... Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 It would be helpful for me if the database could distinguish between what kana is being used [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kana]. Typically KATAKANA is written in UPPERCASE while hiragana is written in lowercase. And yes, spellcheck is going to make your life miserable in MS Word! No sooner than you type "TO" it will change to "To". I wonder why they call it progress? ト = TO と = to My reason for bringing this up is the following Mantetsu. I guess they could not find a katakana TO stamp so decided to confound us with a hiragana one instead! Post #67 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-3?do=findComment&comment=271524 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 15, 2019 Author Report Posted September 15, 2019 Bruce Here is one more for you. 昭和庚辰秋（1940 Autumn）,興亞一心，滿鐵作之。才（0） 一一一（111）. John,What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book? Quote
Kiipu Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 John, What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book? SmartSelect_20190915-153645_Chrome.jpg The information is coming from the Ohmura website. It matches exactly. With that said, it would be interesting to find out what publication reprinted it. Possibly a club newsletter or such. http://ohmura-study.net/222.html Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted September 15, 2019 Report Posted September 15, 2019 John, What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book? SmartSelect_20190915-153645_Chrome.jpg Bruce It's me NOT John post the photos of that 1940 Mantetsu.I think the background book is Chinese collector's reprint of Ohmura's Mantetus info. Trystan Quote
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