Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

[Bruce Pennington]

A minor update on the Mantetsu mei dateline. I've found a '39, chopped to waki size, but having bothe the Dalian Railway Stamp AND the Koa Isshin mei. It's a Spring of '39 so there might have been a transition early in the year where both appeared together. So for now, here's the mei timeline:

 

Showa 13 (1938) Winter - Dalian Railway Stamp; no mei

Showa 14 (1939) Spring – Dalian Railway Stamp; 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄作之 (Mantetsu Saku Kore)

Showa 14 (1939) to Showa 16 (1941) : 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄作之 (Mantetsu Saku Kore)

Showa 17 (1942) : 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄謹作 (Mantetsu Kin-Saku)

Showa 17 (1942) to Showa 18 (1943) : 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄作 (Mantetsu Saku)

Showa 18 (1943) to Showa 19 (1944) : 満鉄鍛造之 (Mantetsu Tanzo Kore)

Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example]

[vajo]

In the new catalogue of unique Japan is a Mantetsu in consignement. Unfortunately there are not detailed pictures of the nakago.

[Bruce Pennington]

In the new catalogue of unique Japan is a Mantetsu in consignement. Unfortunately there are not detailed pictures of the nakago.

Do you mean the one dated Feb, 2019?

[vajo]

Hi Bruce

 

that one from may: Japanese Sword Catalogue 31.0

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Chris. I got in touch with the owner and he sent pictures! It's a Spring '43, Fu 48, Koa.

 

So, assuming the blades were numbered in order, sequencially, we now have 3 "lines" with both Koa and non-Koa/Nan mei, and they are NOT in order!

 

Hi 226 Nan 591 Koa

Fu 1385 Nan 48 Koa

Sa 52 Nan 361 Koa

Sa 459 Nan

 

If the theory about SMR sending unfinished blades to Mukden (as we know they did for Tokyo Arsenal) to be "finished," is correct, that would mean that the unfinished blades were numbered BEFORE they were sent out, and the mei was added by the finishing establishment.

 

If the theory, that the Koa's and Nan's were ALL made by SMR, and '43 was a transition year between making Koa's and transitioning to non-Koa mei, the numbers SHOULD be in order. The first numbers cranked out should be Koa's and the later numbers Nan's; but as we can see with the HI and FU lines, it's just the opposite! and the SA line is backwards, but goes to Nan at again. There might be a logical explanation for this, but on the face of it, seems unlikely.

 

Based on this TINY bit of evidence, Mukden theory seems to be more plausible for now.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Bruce, a new one for you: http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords5/KT331216.htm

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce, a new one for you: http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords5/KT331216.htm

John, great one thanks! Unpolished '39 in combat saya - 780,000 yen ($7,500 USD)!!!!!!!!

 

Pics added in case the link goes dead in the future.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Quite extraordinary but registered one are quite rare on the market there, this one seems abnormally high though.

[vajo]

The prices go more and more crazy, but good for the owner.. I have none   

[PNSSHOGUN]

Some quick profit if you manage to import a few!

[16k]

Just stumbled upon this while browsing the internet; Anyone knows what book this is coming from?

[Stephen]

John Slough book morden Japanese Swordsmiths 1968 1945. A Oshigata book

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26707-wts-oshigata-of-modern-Japanese-swordsmiths-slough/

[16k]

Thanks. Anyone has a clear picture of those pages?

[Stephen]

i can take pic in few, after son comes over.

[16k]

That’s great, Stephen, thanks.

 

Are there other pages about Mantetsu after these? What strikes me is that seems to be almost word for word what Ohmura wrote, only in good English, so I was wondering if there were more as Ohmura can sometimes be a chore to decipher.

[Stephen]

Yes a third.

Sorry for the poor photos.

The book can be found for less with some searching.

 

[16k]

Thanks Stephen,

 

This is really interesting. I’ve searched the web for the book, but have only found high prices for it, prices that I can’t manage this month, but now it sure is on my need/want list!

[Stephen]

Did you check with Grey?

Id post a WTB in sales. $125 use to be the norm.

[16k]

Well, it’s sold out on Grey’s site. I’ve found one for $120 on the web, but the site looked fishy. eBay has it for $350. Too much for me at the moment. I’ll wait a little and if I can’t find it, I’ll post in the WTB section. Anyway, looking for this and Ise no toko, so I’ll post a WTB thread at some point.

 

Thanks again for the pics.

[Brian]

In our sale section, $200 I think.

[Brian]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26707-wts-oshigata-of-modern-Japanese-swordsmiths-slough/

[16k]

Thanks Brian,

 

I’d actually seen it and if I can’t find a better price or a seller in Europe (last book I got from Grey, the customs hit me with another $30), I will certainly contact this seller. Thanks again for the link, at least I’ll find it easily now.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another Koa Isshin with papers for you Bruce: http://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/katana/1910-1104.htm

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Koa Isshin with papers for you Bruce: http://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/katana/1910-1104.htm

Thanks John!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another one with NTHK papers but later Mantetsu-To mei: https://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/katana/1910-1115.htm

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Great John, didn't have that one! It's a "Nan" stamped, non-Koa, with "W", my second '44 marked so. These muddy my theory that Mukden made these Nan-stamped blades because I'm fairly certain the W inspector mark originates at the Tokyo Arsenal. I suppose one idea is that the Tokyo Arsenal had an inspector working the Mukden arsenal, or Mukden inspectors used the W on authority of Tokyo? I wish I knew more about how that process worked.

[PNSSHOGUN]

I would think it's more likely the swords are made in Mukden then shipped to Tokyo Arsenal for inspection, Koshirae and distribution? It's no coincidence I have seen Mantetsu and other swords with the "W" mark using the same Koshirae maker.

[Bruce Pennington]

I would think it's more likely the swords are made in Mukden then shipped to Tokyo Arsenal for inspection, Koshirae and distribution? It's no coincidence I have seen Mantetsu and other swords with the "W" mark using the same Koshirae maker.

That's definitely a possiblity that had not occured to me! Tokyo would be the place where the majority of the outfitters were found, as well as the natural location for distribution to Officer Clubs and sellers.

[16k]

...and it would fit with the “ unfinished blades” sent to Tokyo, whatever unfinished means. Could be raw, unpolished blades that got stamped after polishing was completed, or finished blades that had still to pass a final qc inspection then sent off for koshirae fitting... loads of possibilities when you come to think of it.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's an interesting one, not because it's a Mantetsu, but because of the "snakeskin" saya cover! Very unusual!!! It's for sale on fleabay now.