Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

[hoovesandswords]

This is really quite interesting, Bruce! Thank you for sharing your charts and survey results thus far. Sadly, as far as numbers go, I've only worked with taxes, so I likely cannot contribute anything haha. Nevertheless, good luck gathering more data!

[Stephen]

For you Mantetsu lovers.
Super clean blade n fittings.
Bruce some numbers for you too.
Ebay item 253905446038
On phone full link later

 

 

 

 

edit https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Army-Officer-Gunto-Sword-Signed-Koa-Isshin-Mantetsu-1941-Katana-Blade/253905446038?hash=item3b1df1a496

Edited October 5, 2018 by Stephen

[vajo]

Great find Stephen. Thats a nice one. I think that go much higher.

[Bruce Pennington]

For you Mantetsu lovers.

Super clean blade n fittings.

Bruce some numbers for you too.

Ebay item 253905446038

On phone full link later

Thanks Stephen! That’s my first “Tsu” serial number. I’m still amazed at how many “Spring” 1941” show up.

[Stephen]

Seen another one Bruce

 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 of mine.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 of mine.

Thank you Trystan! By any chance were these Mantetsu, without the Koa Isshin?

[Bruce Pennington]

Seen another one Bruce

 

Got it Stephen, thanks!

[Bruce Pennington]

With Trystan's numbers, we now have 4 of 5 1944 numbers that are 4-digit; and 1944 being the only year, so far, with 4-digit numbers. Hmmm.

 

If you run some math, with Ohmura's statememt that Mantetsu was cranking out 400 blades per month (assuming that number for all years of production, which is probably not accurate, but for discussion purposes):

 

400 x 12 = 4,800/yr

4,800 x 8 = 38,000 total for WWII

 

There are roughly 50 katakana kanji - SO if Mantetsu used ALL kanji from the beginning, and used them evenly, the highest the serial numbers would have reached is "768". With numbers into the 2,000s (SE 2344) it's clear they didn't run all the kanji simultaneously and/or evenly distributed. This fits the fact that half the numbers collected are in the "A" row.

 

The search continues .....

 

(updated chart attached)

Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

[BANGBANGSAN]

Bruce

Type 3 without Koa Isshin.98 has.These 2 of mine are in my friend's place.I will get my others out and take some photos for you when I have time next week.

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce

Type 3 without Koa Isshin.98 has.These 2 of mine are in my friend's place.I will get my others out and take some photos for you when I have time next week.

Trystan, I really need the serial number ont the nakago mune (back edge.)

Thanks!

[BANGBANGSAN]

Trystan, I really need the serial number ont the nakago mune (back edge.)

Thanks!

I post the numbers on my other post already!

[BANGBANGSAN]

Trystan, I really need the serial number ont the nakago mune (back edge.)

Thanks!

You were askin me if these 2 mantetsu both KOA Isshin or not ,so I post the tang to show you, type 3 is not KOA Isshin,98 is KOAIsshin.

[Bruce Pennington]

I see, thank you!

[Bruce Pennington]

Trystan's two '44 blades - one being a Koa, and the other not- got me to reavaluate something I had been believeing: From Ohmura's site, I had thought that he was saying that the years Mantetsu used the slogan "Koa Isshin" were from Mar 23, '39 to mid '43; and from mid '43 the blades were simply marked as "Mantetsu made this". But Trystan owns a Koa made in '44.

 

After re-reading Ohmura's discussion (here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/45-military-swords-of-Japan/and here: http://ohmura-study.net/205.html), I think he is simply stating the start dates of both mei, and beginning mid-'43 you'll find both kind.

 

If anyone else reads it another way, please comment.

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi Bruce, 

  I have a Koa Isshin dated Fall 1939.  The back of the nakago has the character "ni"  then then a space and the Japanese numbers "190"

 

 

       Hope this helps your research,  Tom Maurer   (rebcannonshooter)

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce, 

  I have a Koa Isshin dated Fall 1939.  The back of the nakago has the character "ni"  then then a space and the Japanese numbers "190"

 

 

       Hope this helps your research,  Tom Maurer   (rebcannonshooter)

Fabulous, Tom, thanks!

[cwh3]

Hello Bruce. My name is Charlie and I have owned a Mentetsu for over 25 years. I would like to add pictures of my sword to your list. Hope I can post pictures haven’t tried this before. I am until now simply a watcher of this forum. Thank you all for the great pictures and information provided.

Hope this adds to your library of information.

[cwh3]

Opps, please excuse the very blurry photo of the upper portion of the blade. Thought it was better than that. These are a challenge to

photograph. Using a I pad. Hope other pictures are of use. I never had the original Gunto mounts for this sword. Came in a beat up

metal scabbard for $200. That was lots money ago - to what it looks like now. Charlie

[BANGBANGSAN]

Trystan's two '44 blades - one being a Koa, and the other not- got me to reavaluate something I had been believeing: From Ohmura's site, I had thought that he was saying that the years Mantetsu used the slogan "Koa Isshin" were from Mar 23, '39 to mid '43; and from mid '43 the blades were simply marked as "Mantetsu made this". But Trystan owns a Koa made in '44.

 

After re-reading Ohmura's discussion (here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/45-military-swords-of-Japan/and here: http://ohmura-study.net/205.html), I think he is simply stating the start dates of both mei, and beginning mid-'43 you'll find both kind.

 

If anyone else reads it another way, please comment.

The one in type 98 mount has beautiful wavy hamon instead straight hamon .It also has black scabbard.

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow, Trystan! That is the first Mantetsu I've ever seen with a wavy hamon!

[Bruce Pennington]

Hello Bruce. My name is Charlie and I have owned a Mentetsu for over 25 years. I would like to add pictures of my sword to your list. Hope I can post pictures haven’t tried this before. I am until now simply a watcher of this forum. Thank you all for the great pictures and information provided.

Hope this adds to your library of information.

Charlie, you just made my day with that single-digit serial number! But this throws an interesting development into the mix. I've seen a "Na 124" and "Na 190" on a 1939 blades. Yours, as a 1941 means that the numbering was either not sequential, or the numbers ran to a certain amount, and then started over.

[IJASWORDS]

Hi Bruce, this is my Spring 1939 Mantetsu (you have the mune numbers), and it also exhibits wavy hamon. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce, this is my Spring 1939 Mantetsu (you have the mune numbers), and it also exhibits wavy hamon.

I wonder if they were special order.

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi Bruce,

  My friend brought his Koa Isshin over today.  It is dated Spring 1940, and the mune on the nakago has the character "Ri" and the numbers 560.  The other thing I was curious about is that the mune on his nakago is rounded while my Fall 1939 is flat.  Is there some significance to the nakago shape that you know of ?????

 

     Good luck with your study, Tom Maurer    (rebcannonshooter)

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce,

  My friend brought his Koa Isshin over today.  It is dated Spring 1940, and the mune on the nakago has the character "Ri" and the numbers 560.  The other thing I was curious about is that the mune on his nakago is rounded while my Fall 1939 is flat.  Is there some significance to the nakago shape that you know of ?????

 

     Good luck with your study, Tom Maurer    (rebcannonshooter)

Tom,

 

Thanks for the new number! As to the mune surface - it's a new one on me. I just checked my Fall '40 and Spring '41 and they are both rounded. It's something I've not noticed before. I'll start watching for that, now that you've mentioned it. A couple of changes happened those first couple of years, so, it's possible the shape started flat, then becamed round in '40 onward, but we'll start watching for that to see.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Bruce

Here is my other 6 Mantetsu.

1. 昭和甲申春 滿鐵鍛造之  　    セ 二五七五 (Type 3 Mount)

2. 昭和壬午秋 興亚一心 滿鐵作   ヤ 七九(Type 98 Mount)

3. 昭和葵末春 滿鐵鍛造之        エ 三六七(Type 98 Mount)

4. 昭和壬午秋 興亞一心 滿鐵作   ク 三二七(Type 98 Mount with leather cover)

5. 昭和壬午春 興亞一心 滿鐵謹作 ウ 九九(Type 98 Mount)

6. 昭和葵末春 滿鐵鍛造之        メ 八七(Type 98 Mount)

 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

Numbers

[BANGBANGSAN]

Hi Bruce, this is my Spring 1939 Mantetsu (you have the mune numbers), and it also exhibits wavy hamon. 

Neil

Very nice!

[Bruce Pennington]

Trystan,

 

You're killin' me man!!! 1 - that you have so MANY Mantetsu!, and 2 - that you made me translate all those dates and numbers!!! HA! It was good practice, though.

 

So new developements:

 

We now have TWO consecutive numbers Ku 326 and Ku 327 in 1942 - we would hope to see that; and ALL 6 of our '44 numbers are 4-digit numbers. (thanks to DaveR, who pointed out one of my numbers "243" was really "1143".) (oh, and one of my 4-digits were transposed)

 

I've updated the chart and attached.

Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx