Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

[Lareon]

18 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks Tony!  I have some shots of that blade from 2019, but your pics are much better.  Hey, is that a black saya?  Not very often we see a Mantetsu in a black saya.

 

 

Yes black saya with a fair bit of paint loss suguha hamon.

I'll take some photos later of it all. It passed hands quickly!

[Kiipu]

It has taken a long time but I finally located the pictures of V18.  In case others would like to see them, below is the link.  This is the highest confirmed Mantetsu that has the SMR logo.

Tang Translation And Possible Arsenal Stamp

[Stephen]

[Bruce Pennington]

@Stephen - looks like "TSU 601" which would be a 1941, Koa Isshin.  Any chance of photos of the rest?  Not in the database!

[Stephen]

52 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Any chance of photos of the rest?  Not in the database!

In the works. 

[Stephen]

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/39126-early-mounts-mantetsu-sword-for-sale/

[Kiipu]

Trystan, these Mantetsu swords appear to be identical.  It was initially reported as a 29th series ヤ八七八; but, the pictures posted later on show a 28th series, ク八七八.  Can you confirm that the origin is one and the same for both posts?

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey, 2019-10-26

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey, 2021-02-17

[Bruce Pennington]

There are several corrosion spots on each that look identical to me.

[Kiipu]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:50 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

Here is an unusual one that has a wavy hamon.  昭和甲申春 興亞一心 滿鐵作 strangely with NO serial number on nakago, says in shirasaya, but no photo of the mount.

 

Looks similar to your (イ)一六四四 including the markings.  Have you tried comparing the two?

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:37 AM, Kiipu said:

 

Looks similar to your (イ)一六四四 including the markings.  Have you tried comparing the two?

No,I hasn't done that yet.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington @Kiipu

Found something interesting. This 1941 昭和辛巳春 the 13th series ワ375, has Suya tsuba numbered H 一六二 マ. And the other 1941 昭和辛巳春 the 14th series カ353， it also has Suya tsuba numbered H 二二二 マ， only 60 numbers apart. Maybe they used the same batch parts from Suya. What do you guys think?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Adding a link to @PNSSHOGUN's post showing a Mantetsu (1941) in fittings with a kiri mon.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30651-mon-in-unusual-locations/?do=findComment&comment=406333

[BANGBANGSAN]

This one is put-together by welding the original cut-off Mantetsu tang to a modern blade.

 

 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

Very first 1937 Winter(丁丑冬)Mantetsu I've ever seen.

[Bruce Pennington]

One for the record books, for sure!  Thanks Trystan!

[Itomagoi]

This is one of the most beautiful Koa Isshin Mantetsu I have seen and the first one with Hi.

[Bruce Pennington]

OMG!!!

 

Peter, that is a first.  Now, the hi could have been a customization after manufacture.  He could have had a sword shop add it.  This also could have been added recently when the polish was done.  Or, as with the few custom SMR Mantetsu we've seen, it was a customer request from the factory.  No way to know, but it does look good, doesn't it!!!

 

Hey, any chance of getting a link to the original post.  That serial number is quite faint.  Clearly a "NA" but the number is too faint to read.  Sometimes by going to the original site, it's just a hair more clear.  If it's an auction that you'd like to keep quiet about, please just send it to me via PM.

@Itomagoi

[Itomagoi]

No, problem: https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/g1046370884?conversionType=service_page_search

[Bruce Pennington]

13 minutes ago, Itomagoi said:

No, problem: https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/g1046370884?conversionType=service_page_search

Well crap.  They actually filed off the serial number!!!

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

OMG!!!

 

Peter, that is a first.  Now, the hi could have been a customization after manufacture.  He could have had a sword shop add it.  This also could have been added recently when the polish was done.  Or, as with the few custom SMR Mantetsu we've seen, it was a customer request from the factory.  No way to know, but it does look good, doesn't it!!!

 

Hey, any chance of getting a link to the original post.  That serial number is quite faint.  Clearly a "NA" but the number is too faint to read.  Sometimes by going to the original site, it's just a hair more clear.  If it's an auction that you'd like to keep quiet about, please just send it to me via PM.

@Itomagoi

Bruce

This one is rewelded the cut off Mantetsu tang with another blade like the one I post a few days ago,but better work.

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 4/7/2022 at 2:13 AM, BANGBANGSAN said:

This one is put-together by welding the original cut-off Mantetsu tang to a modern blade.

 

 

 

@Bruce Pennington

Check it out

[Itomagoi]

Sry, but I do not think that this sword has been welded together. This "cross line" is normal for a Koa Isshin Mantetsu. For example here:

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

Cut off tang.And someone's replica 濾目 work of Mantetsu tang.

 

[Kiipu]

6 hours ago, Itomagoi said:

This "cross line" is normal for a Koa Isshin Mantetsu.

 

Agree, a filing mark that is common on SMR tangs.

[BANGBANGSAN]

6 hours ago, Itomagoi said:

Sry, but I do not think that this sword has been welded together. This "cross line" is normal for a Koa Isshin Mantetsu. For example here:

 

Peter

You're right, some Mantetsu does have the cross line on the tang. I also agree anything is possible, but this one with Bohi is in doubt with more than a few people not only me. Not saying we're 100% correct though.

[Itomagoi]

From a welder's point of view, however, it makes no sense in this case. Cut the tang above the cross line, then weld it perfectly to another blade, grinding, perhaps then etch with acid, then cut a bohi and polish the blade. I can't imagine that. But I am not an expert.

[BANGBANGSAN]

32 minutes ago, Itomagoi said:

From a welder's point of view, however, it makes no sense in this case. Cut the tang above the cross line, then weld it perfectly to another blade, grinding, perhaps then etch with acid, then cut a bohi and polish the blade. I can't imagine that. But I am not an expert.

I know, it's hard to judge. It seems the bohi can be added after the blade is done. Let's leave the welded thing out. Is the bohi custom order form Mantstsu or some smith add it later? Pobroly we will never know. 

 

[Brian]

That Sorrells video is incredible. Wow...so much involved in a "simple" fuller.
Imagine what extra work was involved doing this 600 years ago. New respect for hi on swords.

[Bruce Pennington]

21 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

This one is put-together by welding the original cut-off Mantetsu tang to a modern blade.

Trystan,

I think it might be equally possible, in this example, that what we are seeing is a repair to a damaged nakago.

 

For the diagonal mark on the original blade of the thread, everyone has pretty well covered the point - the massive majority of Mantetsu mune have this mark.  I don't even have to do a scan of my files to say that.  So, like Trystan's conclusion, probably original SMR Mantetsu, but when and where the bohi was added cannot be known.  The polish removed any chance of old patina in the groove, but even if it had been there, we still wouldn't know if the factory did it, or a post-production shop did it for a customer.

 

Enjoyable discussion guys, thanks for tossing it around!

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

probably original SMR Mantetsu, but when and where the bohi was added cannot be known. 

 

Too bad ,the ser# number was scratch off.