Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

[Kiipu]

Army contract blade even though civilian marked.  This is indicated by the M on the lower obverse side of the the nakago.  Check the kabutogane for a possible 東 inspection mark.

ク = KU = 28th series.

[tbonesullivan]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

Army contract blade even though civilian marked.  This is indicated by the M on the lower obverse side of the the nakago.  Check the kabutogane for a possible 東 inspection mark.

ク = KU = 28th series.

 

DING DING DING! Found it!

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks David!  I'm glad we looked further on that, as it is クKU.  And it fits better as all the other Ku are Autumn blades too.

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Check the kabutogane for a possible 東 inspection mark.

Thomas,

I hadn't made that connection!  Are you seeing the "TO" on the kabutogane of the "M" stamped blades? 

[Kiipu]

The combination only shows up on some 1942 Mantetsu blades.  I have posted in the past about this.

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/?do=findComment&comment=311598

[16k]

Are you sure about that, Thomas? 
 

Because I thin i have this on my 43 too.

[Kiipu]

8 hours ago, 16k said:

Because I think I have this on my 43 too.

 

Yours has the army contract markings of Mantetsu Tanzo Kore and not the commercial marking of 興亜一心.  Only the army contract swords dated 1942 have the combination of  興亜一心, M, and 東.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/?do=findComment&comment=321678

 

[16k]

I guess I must misunderstand something there... my 43 is indeed a Mantetsu Tanzo Kore, with the NAN stamp and the W. But on the kabutogane, there also is a stamp though it is unreadable. So are we talking about the same thing or am I completely misunderstanding what you mean?

[Kiipu]

2 hours ago, 16k said:

I guess I must misunderstand something there... my 43 is indeed a Mantetsu Tanzo Kore, with the NAN stamp and the W. But on the kabutogane, there also is a stamp though it is unreadable. So are we talking about the same thing or am I completely misunderstanding what you mean?

 

We are not talking about the same thing, 1942 versus 1943.  I have no information on the subject of 1943 kabutogane markings.  Maybe Bruce knows more about it but I do not recall him gathering that type of information.

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, 16k said:

my 43 is indeed a Mantetsu Tanzo Kore, with the NAN stamp and the W

 

7 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Maybe Bruce knows more about it but I do not recall him gathering that type of information.

I haven't been tracking it.  It was a point of interest when we were trying to track down the rumor that Tokyo 1st Arsenal was making Koa Isshin blades, so the "To" showing up on the fittings of Koa blades was seeming to confirm the idea.  We've since learned that SMR was tasked to furnish 6,000 Koa blades to Tokyo (in 1944; 500 finished, 5,500 unfinished).  The "M" was also thought to be originating out of Tokyo.  And these "TO" stamped kabutogane on Koa blades seemed to back that up.  Today, I'm not so sure the stamp's source was Tokyo as we now have Nan and Ren stamped blades with the "M".   The Nan-Man Arsenal assumed supervisory duty over the SMR production in 1942, so I suspect it was their inspectors using the "M" on partially completed blades.

 

The fact that your 1943 non-Koa blade is in fittings with a possible "TO" stamp doesn't surprise me as the majority of blades made by SMR were shipped to Tokyo for fitting and sales.

 

We were still intrigued by the number of Mantetsu blades showing up in fittings with the stamp and wondered if it would eventually lead us to revelations about just who was outfitting these blades.

[PNSSHOGUN]

One listed on Aoi-art: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-koa-isshin-mantetsu-saku/

 

 

 

[16k]

Those really are beautiful swords...

[Bruce Pennington]

8 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

One listed on Aoi-art:

Thanks John, that's a new one!  Added to the list now.

 

Thanks to everyone for keeping me in mind when you come across these!

[Kiipu]

28th Series Mantetsu, Early Army Contract.

ク 四七一 = KU 471.

昭和壬午秋 = Autumn 1942.

M inspection mark along with subassembly number.

満鐵作 = SMR made.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

ク 四七一 = KU 471.

昭和壬午秋 = Autumn 1942

Got it, thanks Thomas!

[francois2605]

Aoi Arts just added a Mantetsu to their inventory: here.

 

Attaching the picture here for posterity.

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Already beat you to it Francois!

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, francois2605 said:

Aoi Arts just added a Mantetsu to their inventory

Thanks Francois.

[BANGBANGSAN]

 

On 11/10/2020 at 10:36 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

 

Bruce

I saw a 1940 Autumn short Mantetsu，thought you might like to add to your chart.

[Kiipu]

The Mantetsu 13 ワ series is a bit of a toss up as far as dates are concerned.  An unusual amount of custom swords also make an appearance.  At this early date, all are commercial blades.  In summary, this is what shows up.

1941春　ワ 　　六　Details unknown.

1940秋　ワ 　三三　Wakazashi.

1940秋　ワ 　七三　Wakazashi Type 98.

1941春　ワ 一三四　SMR Tachi.

1941春　ワ 一五八　Type 98

Edited November 12, 2020 by Kiipu
Corrected several errors in the dates.

[BANGBANGSAN]

6 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

The Mantetsu 13 ワ series is a bit of a toss up as far as dates are concerned.  An unusual amount of custom swords also make an appearance.  At this early date, all are commercial blades.  In summary, this is what shows up.

1941春　ワ 　　六　Details unknown.

1940秋　ワ 　三三　Wakazashi.

1940秋　ワ 　七三　Wakazashi Type 98.

1940春　ワ 一三四　SMR Tachi.

1940春　ワ 一五八　Type 98

Thomas

Do you have photos or link for the these 13 ワ series commercial blades?

[Kiipu]

ワ 六 = WA 6　No pictures.

http://ohmura-study.net/222.html

 

ワ 一三四 = WA 134.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/28631-railway-swords-stamps/?do=findComment&comment=290148

 

ワ 一五八 = WA 158.

https://yakiba.com/Kat_Mantetsu4.htm

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/?do=findComment&comment=265512

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Kiipu

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Trystan for the new addition!  It is the second production waki I have record of and the first one is Autumn 1940 Wa 33!  So like, Thomas said, this "line" of production seems to have some experimentation, or custom orders, in it!

 

I don't have pics of the whole waki (33) but here is what I have:

 

[Kiipu]

Serial number not stated but is looks like it could be ワ 三三?

Mantetsu Wakizashi

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, that's the one.  The link to the yakiba.com site doesn't work, though.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

1941春　ワ 　　六　Details unknown.

1940秋　ワ 　三三　Wakazashi.

1940秋　ワ 　七三　Wakazashi Type 98.

1941春　ワ 一三四　SMR Tachi.

Thomas, I don't have records of the 6 or 134.  Do you a source or photos?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thomas

Thanks!

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thomas, I don't have records of the 6 or 134.  Do you a source or photos?

Bruce

Thomas already post the link

 

ワ 六 = WA 6　No pictures.

http://ohmura-study.net/222.html

 

ワ 一三四 = WA 134.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/28631-railway-swords-stamps/?do=findComment&comment=290148

 

ワ 一五八 = WA 158.

https://yakiba.com/Kat_Mantetsu4.htm

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/?do=findComment&comment=265512

 

[Bruce Pennington]

53 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Bruce

Thomas already post the link

Thanks again, Trystan.  I somehow missed the Wa 6 when I transcribed the Komiya chart, and I had the pics of 134 in my files, but had never entered it in the Word document chart.  Now both are logged.

[Kiipu]

Bruce, I updated the post after the fact and that is why you missed it.  It took some time to find the Mantetsu 13 series swords that BangBangSan was looking for.  Thankfully, Stegel-san reposted those tachi pictures which had serial number ワ 一三四.