Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

[IJASWORDS]

This is a winter 1938 Mantetsu. Looking under my new LED light, hada is very evident. Hamon looks water quenched, with wide habuchi. 

Also Trystan, I think Kurihara Akira in your article is actually Kurihara Akihide. On page 18 of Slough (B1), the oshigata of a September 1937 Akihide sword says, "Students Akimune, Akifusa, and Akihisa accompanied by volunteers for duty in Manchuria to repair gunto". 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Did this sword come with mounts, Neil?

[BANGBANGSAN]

nice

 

This is a winter 1938 Mantetsu. Looking under my new LED light, hada is very evident. Hamon looks water quenched, with wide habuchi. 

Also Trystan, I think Kurihara Akira in your article is actually Kurihara Akihide. On page 18 of Slough (B1), the oshigata of a September 1937 Akihide sword says, "Students Akimune, Akifusa, and Akihisa accompanied by volunteers for duty in Manchuria to repair gunto". 

 Nice looking Mantetsu! You are right 栗原昭秀 is Kurihara Akihide，my bad!As Chinese ,most of time we just recognize the Kanji and did not very careful about the Japanese pronounciation...

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thank you Trystan! Valuable info! So, I won't list his son as a Mantetsu smith for now. You did just give us another smith, 栗原昭秀 Akira Kurihara, that worked there "short-term"!

Bruce

栗原昭秀 is Kurihara Akihide instead of Akira.Thanks Neil for correcting me.

[16k]

All these latest additions are very interesting and shed some more light on the whole process. Where are all those texts coming from, Trystan?

[BANGBANGSAN]

JP

The story of 若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu and his 70 buried swords is  from a book called "日本冷刃”, the authr 王辉 is a well known military researcher in China.According to him,it's translating from 若林重次's younger son 若林八州彦's memoirs.

 

Other info are from a post in Chinese forum translate from Omura's website

 

http://ohmura-study.net/223.html

満 鉄 刀 の 試 作

昭和十一年中央試験所より大連鉄道工場に刃物という名称で二尺二寸の日本刀一振りを製作するよう依頼があった。

古来の日本刀は硬い鋼に軟らかい心鉄を入れて鍛造するのであるが、当時そのような事は出来ぬので、炭素量○・二％程度の軟らかい

日下純鉄を使って、刀を鍛造し仕上げた後、滲炭(表面のみ炭素量を増して焼入れする)し焼刃土を塗り水で焼入をし仕上げ研ぎ

をして白鞘に納めた。

之が始(ママ=初の誤植)めて大連鉄道工場で作られた日本刀であった。

その頃大連遼東ホテルで刀剣会があって、之を出品した処、之を評して「名刀」で初代忠吉の作であろうという人があった。

後で大連鉄道工場の作品であることを明らかにした際、一同は大変驚くと共に、吾々の技術を高く評価された。

日下氏は之を中西理事に贈りしところ、大連の愛刀家の間に評判となり、注文が殺到した。

 

本 格 的 製 産

当初は工具製作の片手間に作っていた処、間に合わぬようになったので、製作方法と工程を改め、硬鋼に軟らかい鋼を内部に入れ

(甲伏という)て鍛造したが、手間がかかって能率が昂(あが)らなかった。

最も重要な鍛造を受け持つ鍛冶工が足りぬため、内地より刀匠という人を二人雇ったが、その中の一人※1は仲々なじまず退社した。　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　※1 筆者は、この人が件の鈴木虹堂氏であろうとみている

その内に総裁室より北支軍に贈る日本刀一○○振注文されたので、愈々(いよいよ)工程を分業化して多量生産方式に切り替えるに至っ

た。

私は日本刀製作については予(かね)て東大俵国一先生著「日本刀」を通読し、又東北大学村上武次郎先生を訪れ日本刀の現代的製法につ

いて教えを乞(こ)うた。又、加藤工場長、鈴木庶務課長（Suzuki Director of General Affairs）、菅原工作長も色々援助された。

 

ある日松岡総裁が工場に来られ、私に次ぎの話をされた。

「正宗のような名工でも、一人で一生かかって千振の刀は出来ぬが、満鉄の資本と人材をもってすれば、勝(すぐ)れた名刀を大量に作り

得ると思う。日本は現在軍刀が不足しているから大いに研究して作戦に間に合うようにして呉れ給(たま)え。

研究の途上、失敗や困難もあろうが決して悲観することはない」と激励せられた。

このため幾多の失敗もあったが約半年後、昭和十二年十二月、流れ作業で日本刀の多量生産が軌道に乗ることになった。

[BANGBANGSAN]

このように未曾有の成果を挙げ得たのは松岡総裁、中西、渡辺理事の激励、東北大の村上先生、中試の日下和治氏、歴代の工場長加藤仲二、赤松喬三、井上愛人、吉野信太郎氏等の指導、鈴木鷹信 Suzuki Takanobu、國重久氏の対外折衝(Outreach/Public Relations)、藤原恒男、高橋享太、小林市太郎、玉置繁雄氏の技術指導による処大でありますが、直接の製作で庄垣内正一氏を始め数十人の人達が一筋に、戦線に通じる意気込みで努力されたこ

とを想い、過ぎし当時を振り返り感激に堪えない。

That's the main reason I believe 鈴木鷹信 Suzuki Takanobu  is not a real swordsmith,even that sword had his name on.

[16k]

That’s funny, because I actually started translating the Japanese parts concerning Mantetsu of the Ohmura site last Friday!

 

I’ve found a good translating engine that gives better results than usual. I wanted to finish translating it next week, read it and proof it, and then post it as a pdf article here.

 

Don’t if I will proceed, then ,as it looks as though you’ve been faster than me!

[BANGBANGSAN]

This is a winter 1938 Mantetsu. Looking under my new LED light, hada is very evident. Hamon looks water quenched, with wide habuchi. 

Also Trystan, I think Kurihara Akira in your article is actually Kurihara Akihide. On page 18 of Slough (B1), the oshigata of a September 1937 Akihide sword says, "Students Akimune, Akifusa, and Akihisa accompanied by volunteers for duty in Manchuria to repair gunto". 

Neil

Here is the photo of 栗原昭秀 Kurihara Akihide visting 軍刀修理団第9班(Gunto repair group 9th squad).昭秀Akihide should be in the center.The other 4 people in the front roll are石井昭房 Ishii  Akifusa、松本千郎 Matsumoto Akiro、若林昭壽 Wakabayashi Akitoshi、宮入昭平 Miyairi Akihira.

[BANGBANGSAN]

That’s funny, because I actually started translating the Japanese parts concerning Mantetsu of the Ohmura site last Friday!

 

I’ve found a good translating engine that gives better results than usual. I wanted to finish translating it next week, read it and proof it, and then post it as a pdf article here.

 

Don’t if I will proceed, then ,as it looks as though you’ve been faster than me!

JP

Can you share the translating engine?Thanks!

[Bruce Pennington]

That’s funny, because I actually started translating the Japanese parts concerning Mantetsu of the Ohmura site last Friday!

I’ve found a good translating engine that gives better results than usual. I wanted to finish translating it next week, read it and proof it, and then post it as a pdf article here.

Don’t if I will proceed, then ,as it looks as though you’ve been faster than me!

Don't stop!!! I would love to have it in PDF form for my files!

[Bruce Pennington]

This is a winter 1938 Mantetsu. Looking under my new LED light, hada is very evident. Hamon looks water quenched, with wide habuchi. 

Also Trystan, I think Kurihara Akira in your article is actually Kurihara Akihide. On page 18 of Slough (B1), the oshigata of a September 1937 Akihide sword says, "Students Akimune, Akifusa, and Akihisa accompanied by volunteers for duty in Manchuria to repair gunto".

 

Neil! Is it possible to get a photo of the '37 in Slough? I don't have ANY '37s,

[16k]

JP

Can you share the translating engine?Thanks!

  

 

It’s called Systran. I found it by chance. There is probably a paying version but I’m using the one on their page. It’s not easy because:

 

- it only translate small passages at a time and won’t work if you copy/paste a passage with notes or pictures.

- since I don’t speak Japanese and Ohmura’s Mantetsu topic seems to be spread on several pages, I wasn’t sure where to stop, so I copied/pasted several pages on a .docx document until I was pretty sure he was talking about something else, but in a .docx page, the Japanese version I have amounts to 54 pages! So, bit by bit, it’s time consuming.

 

As for the result, it still results in a few weird sentences or syntactic oddities, but much less than anything I’ve read before. Still it requires proofing to make it sound like English at times.

 

Don't stop!!! I would love to have it in PDF form for my files!

Will do, then Bruce!

 

BTW, anyone knows if Ohmura is still alive? I never see updates on his site.

[Bruce Pennington]

JP,

The email for the site is: imperial_military-swords@s8.dion.ne.jp

 

I tried writing to them when I was compiling the Stamps Doc, but got no reply. Nick Komiya thought they would only reply if you wrote to them in Japanese. Someone composed my email in Japanese and I sent that out, but still no reply.

[16k]

So, the address with dion.ne.jp is still valid? That’s weird because a lot of sites provide link to what seems to be an older version of his site that end with dion.ne.jp, but every time I click them, my browser says the address is invalid. So maybe it’s an old email address too.

 

But from his greetings page, we can deduce he’s probably in his late 70s, early 80s (battle of Attu was in 43 and he was born probably 2 years+ before that), so I hope he is still among us.

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, the sword in Slough is not a Mantetsu. It is a 1937 sword made by Akihide himself dedicated to his disciples who went to Manchuria to repair gunto. 

[Kiipu]

  BTW, anyone knows if Ohmura is still alive? I never see updates on his site.

 

As of 2017, Ohmura Tomoyuki 大村紀征 was alive and well.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f216/showa-dept-interior-stamp-662590-post1698480/#post1698480

Edited December 8, 2019 by Thomas

[16k]

Thank you Thomas, so a book it is! Damn, I wish it gets published and someone translates it because ha can count me in the fanboys squad too!

[Bruce Pennington]

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f216/showa-dept-interior-stamp-662590-post1698480/#post1698480

I’d forgotten that conversation. It confirms Ohmura’s reason for stating that the Showa stamp had been assigned to the Seki Guild. I’ll have to add that to the Stamps Showa discussion.

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce, the sword in Slough is not a Mantetsu. It is a 1937 sword made by Akihide himself dedicated to his disciples who went to Manchuria to repair gunto.

 

Oh ok.

[BANGBANGSAN]

  

 

It’s called Systran. I found it by chance. There is probably a paying version but I’m using the one on their page. It’s not easy because:

 

- it only translate small passages at a time and won’t work if you copy/paste a passage with notes or pictures.

- since I don’t speak Japanese and Ohmura’s Mantetsu topic seems to be spread on several pages, I wasn’t sure where to stop, so I copied/pasted several pages on a .docx document until I was pretty sure he was talking about something else, but in a .docx page, the Japanese version I have amounts to 54 pages! So, bit by bit, it’s time consuming.

 

As for the result, it still results in a few weird sentences or syntactic oddities, but much less than anything I’ve read before. Still it requires proofing to make it sound like English at times.

 

 

Will do, then Bruce!

 

BTW, anyone knows if Ohmura is still alive? I never see updates on his site.

Thanks JP!

[vajo]

I asked Ohmura some years ago about a book. The warrelics comment is from 2017 anybody knows if he finished his book? That would be a big affort to the collector community.

[Kiipu]

I have noticed two of the 1942 dated Mantetsu swords have the combination of a M partial inspection stamp on the nakago and a Tōkyō 1st Army Arsenal 東 final inspection mark on the kabuto-gane.  I wonder if this holds true for the other 1942 M stamped Mantetsu blades.

ウ二〇  昭和壬午春  http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29923-wts-w-stamped-koa-isshin-mantetsu/

ヤ一〇四八  昭和壬午秋  http://guns.allzip.org/topic/188/748295.html#p12

[Bruce Pennington]

I have noticed two of the 1942 dated Mantetsu swords have the combination of a M partial inspection stamp on the nakago and a Tōkyō 1st Army Arsenal 東 final inspection mark on the kabuto-gane. I wonder if this holds true for the other 1942 M stamped Mantetsu blades.

ウ二〇 昭和壬午春 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29923-wts-w-stamped-koa-isshin-mantetsu/

ヤ一〇四八 昭和壬午秋 http://guns.allzip.org/topic/188/748295.html#p12

Sorry Thomas, I have not been keeping pictures of the koshirae of the vast majority of the blades I've recorded. And don't have any pics of '42s with W stamp.

[16k]

My 43 with W stamp has one too!

[16k]

You guys are gonna like that! I’m barely in the middle of the traduction of Ohmura’s and I already have 25 pages in English ONLY about Mantetsu. This is going to be a treat. I’ve skimmed through a few pages and it seems to confirm some theories I’ve read here. Can’t wait to finish!

[16k]

- Koa coexisting with non-Koa mei - this is still quite the mystery. The '44 chart found by Nick Komiya lables all the blades made by Mantetsu, and "completed" by Tokyo - "Koa Isshin"; 6,000 total (500 by Mantetsu and 5,500 by Tokyo. actually the chart is confusing because they state Tokyo completed 6,000, but the 500 and 5,500 add up to 6,000 so I think the 6 is a total of both figures). Yet, most '44 blades found today are NOT Koa's, though I have record of 2. The serial numbers of the '43 Koa's seem to be scattered through the year, so it appears they were being made simultaneously with the non-Koa blades. With this, and the '44 chart, it would seem to imply that non-Koa blades were being made by someone other than Mantetsu.

According to Ohmura, the Koa Isshin blades where manufactured by the SMR Mantetsu manufacture while the plain Mantetsu were made at the Nan Man arsenal, so it explains while we can find both after 43.

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm still on the fence on the issue. One of the challenges to this idea is that some of the numbers that SHOULD be in sequence have early numbers that are Koa, then mid numbers are Nan, then late numbers are Koa again. Example:

 

Spring '43

FU 48 Koa

FU 106 non-Koa Nan

FU 624 non-Koa Nan

FU 757 non-Koa (no stamp)

FU 758 non-Koa Nan (wavy hamon)

FU 795 Koa

FU 960 Koa

 

The only way I can logically see this happening is if SMR Dalian made blades, with numbers, but unpolished. Then someone randomly grabs an armfully of blades from a pile and puts them in a box to go to Nan-man Arsenal for polishing and mei inscriptions. #48, 795, and 960 didn't get grabbed and are polished and "mei-ed" at SMR, while the others are polished and "mei-ed" and Nan-man.

 

Because of the diary entries in the book found by K. Morita, we know for a fact that Nan-man was at least polishing Mantetsu blades. If they were making them there as well, I don't see an obvious explaination for the mixed serial numbers.

[16k]

I haven’t read enough of the text to confirm or deny. However, I saw a whole passage, very near this bit of info, that was dealing with the numbering of the Mantetsu. So maybe that will offer an explanation. I was too busy, chain- translating to read much!

 

Edit 1:Also, wouldn’t it be possible that there was a single registry for both Koa and non Koa?

 

Edit 2: K. Morita is also mentioned in Ohmura’s text, so I think he’s read it and has probably more information than we have, at least I hope. As they say, stay tuned!

[Kiipu]

Can you explain the significance of the parentheses?

 

I have no documentation on why the parentheses was used in this situation.  It is not something I have encountered before.  I do think that the (イ) falls between ス and い.  See the example below.

昭和甲申春　ス 二一九

昭和甲申春　(イ) 五五六

昭和甲申春　(イ) 一六四四

昭和乙酉春　い 六二二