yari Bizen Munemitsu 宗光

[Bugyotsuji]

Can anyone help me along any further, I wonder?

 

I bought a suriage sasa-no-ho yari in polish today with three Nakago ana, and NBTHK paperwork saying 無銘　mumei (å‚™å‰å®—å…‰) (Bizen Munemitsu) and the dealer added: 'from the 室町 Muromachi Period'. There is some tiny little bendy damage to the very tip of the blade, which I have asked to have fixed. (Everyone was astonished that I would bother to go to the time and expense.)

 

There were several Bizen Munemitsu running from 1319 元応 to 天正 which ended 1591.

 

My question. Is the attribution in your opinion to a) a single Munemitsu, would you think, and if so, how would I narrow it down? Or, is it b) an attribution to a place and a line of smiths in general, with which I should be gratefully satisfied?

 

(No photos, unfortunately, as I left it at the shop for sending away, but I could go back tomorrow and take some, if it would help.) :|

[Brian]

Piers,

 

I guess that is a difficult one to pin down. I think if they meant the line, then they would have said den Munemitsu or something. I would expect they were refering to a particular smith, but as you said there were a few. Did the dealer add to the attribution right on the origami?

Might be the one working around 1532 or the 1558 one? Good smiths anyways, and perhaps an enquiry directly to the NBTHK would yield some results and narrow it down?

Not easy without further info though.

 

Brian

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

 

Attribution is made on a line or group

 

Edo and earlier blades with correct mei, or mumei blades on which the time period, kuni and group can be identified, may receive Hozon paper.

 

Quote from here

[Bugyotsuji]

Brian, thanks for the thoughts. I too was looking for the word 'Den' on the paperwork but there was none. I even asked, 'Is it Den?' and they said 'No'. The dealer opened To-ken Yo-ran and pointed out the sole Bunmei 1469-1486 Munemitsu, saying 'His Katana are worth X million yen!" Without digging any deeper, I accepted his pointer, but it was when I got home that I discovered a whole line of Munemitsu.

 

Jacques D "Time Period, kuni and group" just about covers it, doesn't it, if you look at the Muromachi as a time period! Thank you very much for pointing that out as the justification for the Hozon papers, and stupid me for not going there to check.

 

I will take your advice, Brian, and go directly to someone I know in the NBTHK. Something to look forward to, when the elements align.

 

Sho-do-gai è¡å‹•è²·ã„ it was, bought on impulse, but you should have seen it the moment he removed the saya. Long thin bamboo-leaf shaped blade, delicate but very sharp, with a thick red lacquer-filled hi on the flat side.... aaarrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhh.....

[Stephen]

ok now you have to share some pix after that tease

[Bugyotsuji]

ok now you have to share some pix after that tease

 

Damn, it worked the wrong way. I thought that by describing it, you could get a mental image and it would get me off the hook. Anyway, just remembered he's closed on Sundays. Give me a couple of days. LOL at Stephen! ... ... ... This should teach me to shut up.

[Guest reinhard]

.

bought on impulse, but you should have seen it the moment he removed the saya.

 

Reminds me of the song "Paradise by the dashboard light" (Meat Loaf). Don't go for instant thrills when it comes to NihonTo; you'll end up with babies unwanted.

 

reinhard

[Bugyotsuji]

.

bought on impulse, but you should have seen it the moment he removed the saya.

 

Reminds me of the song "Paradise by the dashboard light" (Meat Loaf). Don't go for instant thrills when it comes to NihonTo; you'll end up with babies unwanted.

 

reinhard

 

Sigh.... So true!

 

PS Never listened to Meat Loaf. Worth buying the album with that track in it?

 

PPS Found it. Good stuff!

http://www.jango.com/beta/MeatLoaf

[Jean]

Hi Piers,

 

Even if a sword is mumei, if the work is characteristic of a Province/school/Lineage of smith, it is not a problem to have a Hozon kanteisho (providing the sword is worth it of course). Depending on the blade quality and the school (interesting ones as Enju, Naoe shizu ..) you can even get a Juyo paper with only an attribution to a school.

 

Some smith lineage in Seki or Osafune had some unmistakable trade marks/characteristics (Kanefusa, Osafune Tadamitsu, Sukesada, Ichimonji ...) which leads directly to a kantei.

 

This kantei is generally granted to a lineage smith (kodai generation), it is almost impossible to pinpoint the kantei to a special generation if the sword is mumei/suriage unless showing outstanding characteristics specific to a smith (Magoroku Kanemoto.. .)

 

Your yari must be showing the unmistakable trademarks of Osafune Munemitsu lineage thus the kantei .

 

Even if the blade is signed, taking into account the number of smiths in a lineage it is almost impossible to pinpoint the work to a specific smith and if done, you shall have often the "Den" associated (it looks like, it shows the characteristics, but ...)

[Bugyotsuji]

Most grateful for the further clarification, Jean. It's all grist to the mill.

 

Now all I have to do is 'see' with my own eyes and brain what those 'unmistakeable trademarks' are.

[Jean]

Hi Piers,

 

I am not sure it fits in but here is a link to one of the most famous sue bizen Munemitsu :

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/sue2.htm

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Piers,

 

I am not sure it fits in but here is a link to one of the most famous sue bizen Munemitsu :

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/sue2.htm

 

Oh, absolutely, there's some good meaty reading in there! Thank you so much for that. Now I've just got to find a good solid period of time to read and absorb this background. Run off my feet right now... aaarrrggghhhh...........

[Bugyotsuji]

Nipped round there this arvo and discovered his mother keeping shop. The yari was still there ready for the polisher. She said she wouldn't mind my taking a few quick shots. It is usually kept in a really nice full-length yari-bukuro.

[Bugyotsuji]

She said she didn't know how to remove the blade and would I do it for her? She was married to his father for X number of years and never touched anything???

[Jean]

Thanks for sharing Piers

[Bugyotsuji]

　Lacquer-filled è¡€æº on flat side. Sankaku-gata, sasaho blade.

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for sharing Piers

 

My pleasure entirely, Jean! :D

[Stephen]

Yes! very nice thanks for taking time Bugsy

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes! very nice thanks for taking time Bugsy

 

OK, so I admit it was impulsive, (and Meat Loaf put it well) but it's not a bad yari per se, is it?!!!! :lol:

 

Now all I have to do is convince the wife that there were always 4 yari in the house, not 3!

[Jean]

Piers wrote :

 

Now all I have to do is convince the wife that there were always 4 yari in the house, not 3!

 

Believe me, Piers, I had 4 katanas on a 5 stand katanakake, Four slots were used and I put my Kanetomo tanto on the bottom lot. It has been there for 2 months and my wife did not notice it

 

Best thing to do, if she notices it, is to say that you have trade it for other items (bit and odds)

[Bugyotsuji]

Piers wrote :

 

Now all I have to do is convince the wife that there were always 4 yari in the house, not 3!

 

Believe me, Piers, I had 4 katanas on a 5 stand katanakake, Four slots were used and I put my Kanetomo tanto on the bottom lot. It has been there for 2 months and my wife did not notice it

 

Best thing to do, if she notices it, is to say that you have trade it for other items (bit and odds)

 

Very good! You just have to find the right way of explaining it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stephen]

What you say is: I told you about that three weeks ago, don't you listen to me anymore?!! were is this marriage gong if you don't pay attention to me!!!! maybe we need to go talk to someone about this ruff spot n our life! I love you honey lets try to be there at all times!!....i could go on.

[Bugyotsuji]

What you say is: I told you about that three weeks ago, don't you listen to me anymore?!! were is this marriage gong if you don't pay attention to me!!!! maybe we need to go talk to someone about this ruff spot n our life! I love you honey lets try to be there at all times!!....i could go on.

 

I love it! Yup, it carries enough truth to pass as fact! Hahahahahaha....

 

And yet, we guys think we're being very naughty and very clever, but she's somehow getting the attention she craves into the bargain...

 

All's Well that Ends Well! hehehehe

 

It gets a bit harder when you buy a yellow sports car on impulse though, and then wonder where to put it and how to explain it away.

[Brian]

Well..to get back on topic, yep Piers, I like it. Very nice, with an original pole and nice shape to it. Looks in very nice condition too. I don't think it was a bad impulsive purchase, and if the wife complains, I will be happy to store it for a year or 10 :D

 

Brian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Nice one Piers.

 

3+1 Yari ?

Are you preparing a squad of Yari Ashigaru to defend the already established squad of Teppo Ashigaru ? :lol:

 

What you say is: I told you about that three weeks ago, don't you listen to me anymore?!!

 

As my wife *effectively* doesn't list me anymore (from the arrival of my 2 children I got the bottom of the list of priorities),

it's handy the fact she hasn't the safe's keys. Can't check what's into

[Bugyotsuji]

Carlo, very good! I have a funa-tansu and had a set of keys made for it, so I think I can guess what you are saying!

 

Actually if you include the little black makura yari I now have 5. They're pretty things, but... the poor man's katana?

 

Brian, thanks for the warm words. The opposite could also be said, cf Reinhard on previous page; one of my closest Japanese friends has already chewed me out over this yari and the holes in my thinking.(= taken me to task.) Long lecture!

 

Shades of: "Study and wait for ten years. Smear the glass panes of showcases in sword museums with the sweat of your forehead. When you can truly judge a sword, that will be the time to buy. Until then you are... !"

 

This is one of the things I like about this world. You collect conflicting opinions, sometimes harsh, and allow them to sharpen you up! (Frisk?)

[Jean]

Hi Piers,

 

Shades of: "Study and wait for ten years. Smear the glass panes of showcases in sword museums with the sweat of your forehead. When you can truly judge a sword, that will be the time to buy. Until then you are... !"

 

One has to take into account that by following this policy, There is a big risk to be in a graveyard before starting collecting/buying...

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Piers,

 

Shades of: "Study and wait for ten years. Smear the glass panes of showcases in sword museums with the sweat of your forehead. When you can truly judge a sword, that will be the time to buy. Until then you are... !"

 

One has to take into account that by following this policy, There is a big risk to be in a graveyard before starting collecting/buying...

 

Jean, just sometimes you say the right thing.

[Guido]

You guys are pathetic. Don't you know that a successful marriage is based on trust and understanding?

 

I *never* would ly to my wife about a new sword, I bring it into the house in plain sight of her. If she askes if I bought a new sword, I tell her I had a new Habaki / Shirasya made, or a Sayagaki done, or a sword papered. This is all true, but maybe not neccessarily for the particular sword I'm just carrying.

 

See, that's a big difference to hiding things away, or even outright lying to your rightful wedded wife - that would be disgusting!

[Brian]

 

You guys are funny. I can't imagine my SO (significant other) ever not wanting me to buy something new. I guess that's what happens when you have kids and responsibility and those other things that come with marriage.

No kids = more money for swords

 

Brian