Stephen Posted July 2, 2018 Report Posted July 2, 2018 Manoo Ray wont read you wrong, we have seen a number of swords lately that look like nihonto but are copys, i cant make the call as its very close. I trust Ray if you cant at the moment id seek out a club in your area and have it looked at in hand. 3
Samanosuke Posted July 2, 2018 Author Report Posted July 2, 2018 Manoo Ray wont read you wrong, we have seen a number of swords lately that look like nihonto but are copys, i cant make the call as its very close. I trust Ray if you cant at the moment id seek out a club in your area and have it looked at in hand. dont worry! i dont get him wrong, but it makes me crazy. i payed a lot of money and it gives me headache since they arrived.
Ray Singer Posted July 3, 2018 Report Posted July 3, 2018 This will be my last post on this thread, but I said earlier in another line of discussion that, when looking at a sword and it is not obvious whether the blade is a fake or one at the same low level of quality, the answer should be to walk away. I am attaching a contrast-adjusted photo of the "wakizashi" nakago. 4
Grey Doffin Posted July 3, 2018 Report Posted July 3, 2018 Afraid I have to agree with Ray; I doubt the swords were made in Japan. The mounts look to be a mix of low end older and modern; I see nothing of any quality. If possible you should see if you can return for a refund. Grey 3
Brian Posted July 3, 2018 Report Posted July 3, 2018 I'm not sure either. I suggest a few well lit pictures of just the nakago.But what is clear is that real or not, these are not worth putting a lot of money into. Look at the levels of the machi on that wakizashi. On that basis alone I would not take it.
CSM101 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Posted July 3, 2018 Dear Manoo, I think most of your questions were already answered in an other forum. By very experienced people with a high reputation. Even with your swords in hand you will hear the same: Try to give the swords back. Uwe G. 2
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 Sry for not answering all those Posts. I cant make any Posts the last in case of my limit about 25 Post. I think it would be the best Option to send this Sword to someone with good reputations in my Area. Making Kantei with bad polish and via picture isnt nice at all. if i can proof that the Swords are fake i want to have a refund. but after sending brian some better pictures of the Wakizashi it seems to be it is original Japanese but in dead condotion. i know there are a lot of high quality chinese Blades outside and i use them too for training and so on. but all this activitys confuses me to much in this one. after talking to some people here in this community i decided to send this sword for a real live seeing kantei in my country. i know most of you meaning it is fake. but If you held the blade in your hand, you would most likely understand my doubt. i know some chinese forged tamahagane/oroshigane Swords from some european manufacture in the netherlands and that blade isnt to compare with this unbalanced blades. the blade feels while just holding heavy but it isnt, while weelding it feels very light but feeling heavy if just holding again. i know most of you judging in case of the nakago and the scratched letters. but kantei starts in suguta and that suguta is nicely craftsmen work. if somebody know anybody in germany near Frankfurt i will be pleasured to visit him for a real life kantei.
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 btw all chinese blades came out from the same forge in long quan China. hanwei, chen and lee and all the other manufacture sitting there and selling their swords just using other chinese mei and names. i know one guy which is in trade with that company. its just a rent factory where u can invest money for producing swords with you name. but they all are different to this one. most of this swords are all cheap imitations with no real activitys on the blade. i know some chinese smith have very good abilitys but that is always a massproduction even if the swords are handforged like hanwei. thats why i never have seen a chinesd sword line that.
PNSSHOGUN Posted July 4, 2018 Report Posted July 4, 2018 Listen to the advice given here by people who have studied Japanese swords for decades, they have nothing to lose from saying these are poor/fake swords. You can continue to delude yourself but at the end of the day you need to get a refund, purchase some good reference books and then look into buy a sword from a reputable dealer. 2
Brian Posted July 4, 2018 Report Posted July 4, 2018 I don't think fake. But poor quality and altered badly.Open grain...a poorly treated Nihonto. It has been buffed, lines rounded etc etc. All the bad things we see when amateurs work on swords. 1
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 It have a lot of scratches same as the longsword. Maybe Sandpaper or Steelwool for rust. shinogi is round and blade is badly shortend looks angle grinders. Hardening is still there. Same as the longsword. all over the Balde are traces of fine scratches like Sandpaper does. the blade is matt and the yakiba is mirrorish.
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 here you can see the badly shortened Nakago. there are traces of a machine.
TheGermanBastard Posted July 4, 2018 Report Posted July 4, 2018 [...] all over the Balde are [...] ... "....". Katana = Seki ... Showa ~1900 - 1945 ... Possibly a Gendaito that some Kanji conartist pimped up in a very poor way. Wakizashi = Very late Edo. Dead. Not walking. Just dead. Kodugu = Poor Quality. Possible Mino Fuchi overcleaned ... dead ... not matching ... the Silver Menuki (?) Looks like some post Edo tourist stuff ... Could be some cuff link type thing. Not the real deal ... Tsuba are also lowest quality. Something you would buy on eBay at 10 - 30 bucks given they had not these clumys kanji scratch attempts. You only have to keep on asking more people. It is just a matter of time / amount of people asked until you will find someone who is going to applaud you on a Koto Daisho that is a potential national treaure in the rough. Until then you might also just wish to go with what the vast majorityof people have told you here and on other boards eventhough this means you may not like it. The truth is sometimes not likeable ... lies are sometimes more likeable. The ones we make up ourselves are usually the ones we hold in hightest regards. So you may also wish to keep on believing and be happy ever after - or you face the truth. Your choice. Why are people so obsessed with Daisho ... there are so few true Daishos out there. This is NO Daisho. You bought two crap swords but still there is a lesson to be learned from this. We all fail at times. I now best. So move on and don't waste your time on riding a dead horse. Still I am amazed that a scholar like Tanobe can sum up the beauty of a marvelous sword in a few words ... and others can write a whole fictional short story on mere nothing. I guess the later one is also some kind of art / gift. Back into my hiatus 3
Geraint Posted July 4, 2018 Report Posted July 4, 2018 So to summarise. We have a fairly random set of fittings of which the menuki are the only thing resembling a daisho and they seem to be modern at best. We have not seen the backs of these. We have some tsuba, not sure how many because one which is built upside down , seems to be cast and has some chisel marks added does not appear in the fittings set. We have seen no images of the sayas but the fittings are all lose so it hardly matters. If the image that Brian shows in his last post is of the wakizashi then the peculiar machi make it junk whatever it is. The katana may or may not be Japanese, we are doing kantei of unpolished blades form photographs after all. The very best conclusion is that someone has thrown together an odd assortment of low end fittings which don't go together, added a couple of junk blades and called it a daisho. Which it isn't and never was. If the buyer can get his money back then he should consider himself fortunate. I wonder what images were provided by the seller? All the best.
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 Yes I know. I dont think it ever was a Daisho. The Mountings are all different. Only the Tsuba and Menuki are the same looking. The wodden parts are all Destroyed. Maybe Water or something. Some parts are black ( i dont know the word). I think i have bought scrap Blades and dont know how to handle this. I hope maybe the katana have a chance to be original and the Wakizashi is dead i know. I dont want so see what i wish it should be but i am asking myself what bullshit have i am done. if i cant proof if ot fake i dont think i cant get a refund. Sometimes i am asking myself if this blades are realy those i have seen on the sellers pictures. No Tsuba of this are Cast. But the last one and third are looking like modern Steel. With the Letters MaroIchi Translated by Markus Sesko. Both Fuchi have different Color. One is Blackend and one is in Copper Color. Menuki and Kashira are made of Silver. But i think both are modern. The two old looking tsuba are seem to be washed down. there are visible lines on it but maybe the patina is destroyed by washing or something. just see it under light and from very nearly sight.
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 I asking myself how to get back my money. i dont think he will accept this
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 but btw everybody just can look on some bad pictures. and everybody told me the same that it is impossible to say something just by photos. at now i dont think it is a gendai or something. it makes me feeling bad right now. its just maybe a gendai and so i have to cry after my money and have no idea how to get it back. if i put money into it and then i know surely it is fake i dont think i get a refund. btw i dint think the seller will response.
TheGermanBastard Posted July 4, 2018 Report Posted July 4, 2018 and everybody told me the same that it is impossible to say something just by photos. NO! I disagree. If you show me images of junk I can tell it is junk. You can take better images and it won't get any prettier ... so there is no reason showing your stuff again and again after you have been told by many knowledgeable people where you are at. I do not think you will get a refund of any kind. Have you read the small print? I would like to think that the auctioneer is not to be held liable in any way and I see no way how you can impose pressure on him. There is much water between you and them. No good. Good luck though.
Samanosuke Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Posted July 4, 2018 Yes i think you are right. i dont think there is any way to get my money back.
Samanosuke Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 Can anybody tell me if this is Tekkotsu on the Rim of this Tsuba? I know most of you dont like such pieces because they are easy and not Daimyo Style Mountings. But I like the simome Style and would like to use it on a Training Shinken. This Lines appears on Both Sides, omote and ura- on the Rim only. At one Side they are very barely visible near the Nakago ana.
Jussi Ekholm Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 I am not a tsuba guy but I'd think you are seeing the remnants of amida yasurime, you can see example at Grey's site here: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/tsuba-%26-kodogu/t250-tosho-tsuba-amida-yasuri
Samanosuke Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Posted October 23, 2018 After a long time i decided to sell those Swords from this topic for a few Buggs. I will sell them as Fake, the reason is i cant proof if real or not. If the longsword is a real Gendai, then it is and i dont care anymore because i do t wont to spent more on it as i done before. I will send both together or seperate. Just contact me. Peice will be jus a few buggs for the new Iaito from my daughter. Longsword- 500,- Wakizashi- 100,- If the Lingsword is real, you have my congcratuation for it, if not you can use it as Trainingsword for Iai or Kenjutsu. Just contact me
Brian Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 Please post in the for sale section, you can add a link to this thread.
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