Uk Legislation Raises Its Head Again

[IanB]

Our outstanding, cultured and far-sighted government are again delving into the area of restrictive legislation on 'blades weapons'. There are exceptions such as fencing foils, but in their eagerness to appear to be seen acting against the idiots using kitchen knives, antique weapons seem to have been overlooked.

Ian Bottomley

[Brian]

UK is destined to lose this fight. Nanny state is inevitable unfortunately.
Luckily, people like myself here in SA are happy to store and look after your swords on a permanent basis
Seriously though, you lost the fight when you gave up the firearms. Everyone outside the UK said they would come for edged stuff next, and people gave those up saying that at least antiques are allowed. And now they will come for those. And afterwards...they will come for museums and anywhere there are "weapons"
NEVER give up any of your freedoms, because you will only lose more, you never GAIN freedom in today's societies.
 

[vajo]

The one who will harm others dont care about laws. Only the good ones take care about the law. All over the world the government is responsible for the security of the citizens but in Europe the government has massive problems to care for the security. They care a lot for the problems of others, not of thier own community. If you want to hurt someone you can use everything as a weapon such as stones and clubs.

[paulb]

Ian

Hs there some specific proposal or legislation you are referring to?

I have run a quick search on the home office website and their policy appears unaltered since we were involved back in 2005/6. I think they may have added more detail relating to kitchen knives, zombie knives (whatever they are) but the exemptions for authentic Japanese swords appear unchanged.

If there is a specific proposal other than that mentioned a few months ago relating to knives do you have a link?

Many thanks

Paul

[pcfarrar]

I think it will be this proposal:

 

https://www.change.org/p/sajid-javid-reconsider-the-offensive-weapons-bill-for-fencers-and-hobbyists

[paulb]

thank you Peter I'll take a look later today.

[Gakusee]

I suppose we shall need to organise ourselves again ...

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Paul

 

It looks like one of the kneejerk Amber Rudd statements re possession of Acid by under 18's and banning blades on local authority property and banning delivery of knives to home addresses, mooted back in April.

[IanB]

Yes, it looks like it is a ban on sending blades through the post rather than anything else.

Ian B

[paulb]

Dear All 

To go through this in detail will require time and a level of concentration. However as Malcolm says this is a progression of something initially discussed in April when the then Home secretary wanted to be seen to be taking action after a spate of acid attacks and a dramatic increase in teenage knife crime.

I have scanned through this but as said I need to look in greater detail. I should also state very clearly I am not a lawyer and have no legal background so the following comments are based on what I hope are common sense and also our shared experience when dealing with the Home Office in 2005.

 

1. The legislation specifcally targets the sale of corrosive substances and edged weapons to under 18s. And the sale o these items remotely.

2. It goes on to mention specific knives such as "zombie knives" flick knives (switch blade knives).

3. It then attempts to clarify and strengthen legislation relating to police action and prosecution for possession and supply of these items.

 

4. It then out lines a number of defences for buying or carrying an edged weapon. These include "it is an item of historical importance" "it is used in re-enactment" or for sporting activity.

 

5. When the original amendments came out in 2005 I was concerned that there was a ban on swords with a curved blade or so called Samurai swords. It listed a number of defences but did not mention antique weapons. When I queried this I was told that as there was no change to the existing law relating to the exemption of antique weapons it did not need to be mentioned in the revised bill. I think the same applies here this is an amendment to an existing bill. It describes only the additions and what is changing. If something isn't subject to change it is not necessary to mention it. So until such times as the defences and exemptions relating to antique or traditionally made Japanese swords ae changed they will not appear.

 

As said the above is based on previous experience but I think is reasonably solid. We do of course need to keep a close watch on what the incumbent minister chooses to do but as things stand these modifications do not appear to directly effect our subject. If anyone has additional information or another view on this I would be grateful to hear it and we can of course act on such information. I believe Clive Sinclaire is in contact with various Kendo groups who have expressed concern about some of the restrictions described but I haven't heard of any changes since the initial contact in April.

[SAS]

If Great Britain exports all of its immigrants to the EU, the knife attack problem will largely be solved, and further legislation unnecessary; unlikely to happen however.

[paulb]

Steve,

Not sure of your sources of information but that comment is neither accurate nor I am afraid to say, helpful.

There has been a large increase in knife crime, much of it based around gang cultures in some of the more deprived areas of cities, but not exclusively so. Certainly not exclusively down to immigrant or ethnic minority groups either These simplistic sound bite policies offer no real solution and only intensify the problem.

[Stephen]

Signed a petition this morning on Facebook for what it's worth.

[vajo]

If Great Britain exports all of its immigrants to the EU, the knife attack problem will largely be solved, and further legislation unnecessary; unlikely to happen however.

Wow! Not really a helpfull comment far from the sea.

[Shugyosha]

If Great Britain exports all of its immigrants to the EU, the knife attack problem will largely be solved, and further legislation unnecessary; unlikely to happen however.

 

Well, right now I'm considering exporting myself to the EU and taking my swords with me but this is not a well reasoned or well researched argument.

[Guido]

If Great Britain exports all of its immigrants to the EU, the knife attack problem will largely be solved, and further legislation unnecessary; unlikely to happen however.

 

That's a great idea! Germany took in the most refugees (by far), and the crime rate is now the lowest since 1992. IOW, if Germany lets in all the immigrants, it will become even safer, and the UK crime rate goes way up. Or maybe it doesn't work that way ... 

[Shugyosha]

I understand that the problem is linked to gang culture and the magic of social media. In these days of instant gratification, it’s possible to post your diss rap on line and be at daggers (occasionally pistols) drawn with the dissees all on the same evening.

It’s not like the good old days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRTB-FTMdk

 

[mareo1912]

Edit: Paul is right.

 

Anyway, I think the state should never be your nanny and take your freedom of choice. Will be interesting how far UK will go in the next years...

[paulb]

Gentlemen

I feel we are allowing this thread to drift far away from it's original theme as a result of one ill judged comment. Might I repsectfully suggest there is little to no benefit in relation to the original post (which I think has been covered) or indeed anything elase by continuing down this path.

[SAS]

Perhaps in the UK your news doesn't report the Allah Akbar screaming African and Arab knife attacks like the independent news sources i read do, or the organized immigrant rape gangs. Or perhaps that sort of "cultural enrichment' is welcomed by certain powerful interests. We can differ, but at least in a semi free country like the USA we still have the option of arming ourselves against attackers....enjoy your freedom as a "subject'.

eta: my comment regarding exporting UK immigrants to the EU was "tongue in cheek" (the Swedish government loves its immigrant offenders) and meant to be regarded as semi-humorous; guess it didn't come off that way. We can agree to disagree (or not).

[paulb]

As said Steve continuing this is really pointless as you obviously have a very blinkered view.

Yes our news covers all the things you mention. and yes we see such things. In fact the BBC goes out of its way to be brtually factual on reporting issues.

Yes you can arm yourselves inthe USA and that is why there are so many more murders, mass killings and such as there are in the UK

I dont agree with much legislation here nor the namny state but I do find it difficult to accept criticsm of my country from those fed misinformation by fox news and the like, oh yes and your president as well ie. "London is now a muslim war zone"

As I said this is going nowhere and no-one can win this debate. You can continue to believe what you want and I will continue to disagree with you, particularly with the type of comment that starting this argument which is just wrong

[vajo]

From a german view the migrant problem is very complex and there is not a key to solve the problem. One thing is clear. If the african people dont have a chance to live thier lifes in a human way, they will come, all. So it is the task of all westernes countries to do more.

[leo]

For many years the 2 large organizations, the German Shooters Association (DSB) and the German Hunting Association (DJV) have been standing up with their political lobbies against the constant unjust efforts of - usually left wing parties - to ban weapons of any kind in Germany. Unjust, because statistics do not really justify a ban and Germany has a rigid but reasonable firearm control and still one of the most liberal in Europe. Blades over 30cm also fall under the weapons laws but can be acquired and possessed by any person at least 18years old.

 

I mention this because Brian is absolutely right: It starts with firearms and ends up with the control of swiss pocket knives. What Tony Blair started in Britain with a cheap trick to support his campaign then, can happen again anywhere.  Whether gun or sword collector, once our lobby is gone, we will be easy prey for the vultures who call themselves politicians!

 

Cheers, Martin