Breaking News On The All-Brown Army Gunto Tassel

[John C]

12 hours ago, george trotter said:

PS the blue painted  "ku 52" is not on the tang...can't remember

Just an interesting note...I too bought a Kanehide gendaito from Matt with the same green and blue painting scheme. "A" series with both the katakana and western A but different numbers.

 

John C

[george trotter]

From the dates/numbers it looks like he was producing his 10 swords/month as required by the RJT scheme.

 

I have seen these blue kanji/numbers on other RJT smith swords also...eg, Yamagami Munetoshi of Niigata - star 19/3 (all kanji TAI 78). 

[mdiddy]

 

 

9 hours ago, John C said:

I too bought a Kanehide gendaito from Matt with the same green and blue painting scheme

 

Here's another I dug up that I previously had. I also found a 1940 dated Kanehide in my archive that does not have any arsenal paint.

Here's another from Alf's site with the blue paint: https://japaneseswor...o-by-nakata-kanehide

 

Here's another from Ed's site with the blue paint: https://yakiba.com/kanehide-nakata/

 

There's more out there with same arsenal paint if you google around, like here: https://www.warrelic...2-collection-437275/

[John C]

Thanks, Matt. I'm tracking the painted number scheme to see if I can identify any patterns (e.g., which smith/forge used which color paint or number series, etc.). Personally (I know I am in the minority here), I think there is something to be gained by figuring out the exact numbering system. I may be able to use the information as an additional verification tool.

John C.

[mdiddy]

Back on topic:

 

@Bruce Pennington Here is another brown tassel

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Totals to date:

67 swords

30 Type 98

28 Rinji Seishiki

5 Civil

4 Type 95

 

Earliest date still 1940

[John C]

Okay...these pics are cheesy. But they were taken off of the TV during a program about the Japanese surrender. It's difficult to tell in the pics, but the tassels on both of these swords looked all brown during the program. I think both are type 98s.

Whatever they are, there is no doubt they are original. 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

John,

Any way to know if the show was originally color film, or was this one of those recently colorized shows?

[PNSSHOGUN]

They appear to be Kai Gunto from the contrast of gold fittings and black samegawa.

[Bruce Pennington]

That was my thinking on the top photo, too.  The sarute location looks navy.  But the bottom photo tsuba seems army.

[george trotter]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:39 PM, george trotter said:

Hi Matt,

PPS...for my file, do you remember who/where you got it from? Any WWII history?

Hi again Matt, you said you would check with the person you bought this Kanehide sword from...just wondering if you got any feedback on this?

Regards.

[John C]

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Any way to know if the show was originally color film, or was this one of those recently colorized shows?

I believe colorized, however there was no difference in shade or tone so my assumption would be solid brown.

6 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

They appear to be Kai Gunto from the contrast of gold fittings and black samegawa.

Actually my first thought as well. On the tv the contrast between the fittings and tsuka looked more like silver and black. But the soldiers were wearing army uniforms, I think. I didn't think to count the ashi. 

John C.

[mdiddy]

@george trotter Apologies for the delayed reply on this one. I tracked down the former owner and they could not quite remember where they got it and said most likely a gun show. I'm afraid the trail went cold.

[mdiddy]

@Bruce Pennington

 

Here is another one

[george trotter]

Many thanks Matt...too bad there was no additional history but I appreciate you trying,

Warm regards,

George.

[Bruce Pennington]

Tally update:

77 swords with brown tassel

8 Civil

4 Type 95

34 Type 98

31 Rinji seishiki

{1 souvenir, not counted in total}

[george trotter]

Nice work Bruce...looks like (in general) the split between Type 98 and RS with brown GUNZOKU tassel is about 50 / 50...with a few 'odds & ends'.

 

Regards...

[Bruce Pennington]

A Type 98 in combat saya, by Kiyonobu, no date, on this Centurion Auction.  Interesting same'.  Is it shark or something man-made?  Note the missing 'beads' or scales.  Also, on the torn section by the ana, you can see thick skin and the 'beads' or scales on the surface.

 

 

[vajo]

Its shark Bruce. But bad quality. It shrinks so much. Good shark leather will not shrink.

[PNSSHOGUN]

One more for your files, it would seem the first Yasukuni To. Yasumitsu, dated January 1935. Fittings are Suya Shoten. It was brought back from the war by a US army Lt. Colonel, with original silk bag. 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Good one, John!  In my search to verify Nick Komiya's claim that the tassel was invented and designated for the Gunzoku, in 1942, the chart seems to support it.  This 1935 date would counter the claim, but I have 3 other gunto with older blades (one 1940; a 1918; and a 1920) that had the brown tassel.  This one might have been originally bought by a Gunzoku with a brown/blue tassel and then switched over to the all brown after they were designated in the Uniform Regulation change.

[John C]

Another all brown tassel on a type 98, however no way to tell if it's original.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, John C said:

however no way to tell if it's original.

Thanks John!  I log them anyway.  It could be true for any number of them, or they could all be original.