My father's sword

[Nobody]

The writing may be the previous owner’s name.

 

飛山 (Hiyama or Tobiyama) - family name

二平 (Nihei?) - given name

[Gabriel L]

Many thanks once again Koichi-san.

[Bobcat]

I finally got to take some more photos of my sword. They didn't come out as sharp as I'd like, despite using a tripod and manual focus. The dark bands are reflections from the window. Here we go. There are a total of twenty.

 

Full view:

 

 

 

The point:

 

 

 

The chip in the blade:

 

 

 

Closeups of the left side:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Closeups of the right side:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest reinhard]

The chips in the cutting edge appear to be very small and negligeable, but the sword seems to have been "cleaned" from superficial rust before. I wonder what people with polishing-experience can tell about the remaining rust. Is it possible to estimate the damage by looking at the blade or is it necessary to start the polishing process before?

 

reinhard

[Jean]

  Quote

Reinhard wrote :

 

"I wonder what people with polishing-experience can tell about the remaining rust"

 

This picture especially shows what it seems to be rust pits.

 

Anyway, Congratulations for your pictures

[Brian]

Personally I like the look of the sword, and I expect it is well within the abilities of a good polisher. The rust pits don't seem as bad as many I have seen removed, but of course only a polisher would be able to tell you more.

However this one looks like it will be very nice after a polish (length is going to cost quite a bit to polish though) but I would say it is a very good candidate.

 

Brian

[Bobcat]

From what I've read, it would cost more to polish the sword than it's worth. If I intended to sell the sword, it would not be worth polishing. But I'm going to keep the sword, so the question is:

 

Is it worth it to me to spend the money to have it polished?

 

I can't afford it now, but I'm going to inherit a decent amount of money when my mother dies (she's 80), and using some of the money to have my father's sword polished and preserved seems appropriate.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

  Quote

Is it worth it to me to spend the money to have it polished?

 

That must be discussed with a good polisher, None here has the solution.

[Guest nickn]

i am sure once polished it would be worth more then the restoration cost

and as the sword cost you nothing

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

  Bobcat said:

Is it worth it to me to spend the money to have it polished?

 

Guess you'r thinking about it as a memory of your father.

If so, yes it's worth, IMHO.

One day you'll have sons too and might be they'll have the same feeling.

[Grey Doffin]

There's more to the question of whether or not to have the sword polished than just cost and value; you need to consider the sword.

Japanese swords are made of different qualities of steel. The highest quality is the outer surface, the skin. Every time the sword is polished some of the skin is lost to the stones. After a certain number of polishes the skin is gone, the core shows through, and a great deal of the sword's artistic merit (and value) is lost.

A properly done polish on a Japanese sword is a very fragile thing; it is easily damaged. Fingerprints, scratches, even chips and broken tips happen all too often. If you are going to have this sword polished you should learn how to properly handle and care for the polished sword, and make sure that everyone who will have access (your heirs?) does the same.

No offense meant by the lecture; I'm sure you plan to take proper care. Just making sure you know what you're getting into. Like I said earlier in this thread, a polish isn't necessary to preserve the sword.

Grey

[Brian]

Was thinking about this in bed this morning. Attention Milt, Grey, Barry etc..

Don't you think that this would make a great article for the JSSUS newsletter? "Is my sword worth polishing?"

This is such a common question, and the answer could certainly make for a great article. There are all kinds of points such as "Is it sentimental" "Can it teach me something" "Will it raise the value" and "Is it necessary"

I think the article could be very informative. Basically there isn't a finite answer. I often see it like adding an expensive sound system to your car or redoing a room in your house. Often you won't recover the cost when you sell, but you do it for your own enjoyment. And as Grey mentioned, it is sometimes not just a question of restoration and is not always better.

Hope this raises a spark in someone, and they do the article (unless it has been done before?)

 

Regards,

Brian

[Grey Doffin]

Brian,

Thank you for offering to write the article. I agree; it will be great in the JSS/US "Newsletter". If you'd like help with editing, let me know.

Grey

[b.hennick]

Hi Brian et al:

I think that would make for an interesting article. The JSSUS would publish it in it Newsletter. If you take this on when finished please send it to Grey, me. A new editor is in the process of taking over and I am not sure as to which email address to give you for him.

The JSSUS is always looking for articles to publish. It is a great learning experience for you to take a subject and work up an article. You can only benefit from the experience.

[Bobcat]

I took my sword to a meeting of the New York Metropolitan Japanese Sword Club at Times Square yesterday. They seem to be a nice bunch of collectors. One young guy has several Tsunahiro blades. Several people took a look at the sword, including an old Japanese man.

 

They said the sword is genuine. Based on the width of the blade and the way the hamon is straight near the habaki (that's visible in the photos I posted), it's slightly younger than you guys estimated; it was probably made around 1700. They said the blade is healthy and should look really good after polishing. They recommended that the polishing be done in Japan.

 

The habaki is not original; it probably dates from about 1900. Likewise for the cloth bag.

[Gabriel L]

Bob,

 

I am happy to hear it. It was my loss that once again I was not able to attend. Sundays are not very good for me. Depending on the content of some news I am waiting on perhaps that will change in September, and I will be able to become a regularly visiting member of the NY Token Kai, but in the meantime I'm glad that your sword was given a clean bill of health.

 

Cheers,

-GLL

[Bobcat]

I was reading some of the sword care threads. Some of them mentioned using isopropyl alcohol for removing old oil. What effect would that have on rust spots like the following? Is there anything else that could be used on these spots to remove the rust or improve the appearance of the sword?

 

 

 

A bit of trivia: The Japanese masters wouldn't have used isopropyl alcohol on their swords. Isopropyl alcohol was developed commercially in Linden, New Jersey, in 1920, and was the world's first commercial petrochemical. I don't think isopropyl alcohol exists in nature.

[Gabriel L]

Isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) is a very good solvent for oils without affecting steel directly. Be sure it is >99% as you want as little water content as possible. The isopropanol proper will evaporate extraordinarily quickly, but even strong (70-90%) solutions will leave water streaks. On that note, if you order/buy it and it comes in a plastic bottle, transfer to glass if you can for longer-term storage. It will instantly suck water out of the atmosphere if you leave it exposed, so it's always diluting itself; I'm pretty sure it can manage this trick through plastic somehow as well. Most importantly, be aware it is a fire hazard and I'd wear gloves as it is absorbed through the skin (and converted by the liver into acetone). It's also volatile, so work in a well-ventilated area and don't deliberately gulp down the fumes.

 

Not trying to be scary. It's great stuff, I have a bottle for cleaning as I think it's better for a brand new polish than an amateurish application of uchiko (if you insist, then use only really nice uchiko, and that very gently). Just be aware.

 

On to your actual question: isopropanol will, in theory, dissolve some amounts of iron oxide (including red rust, Fe(2)O(3) where the parentheses indicate subscripts). It's not magic and it won't replace a true professional polish, but it's technically better than nothing. So I'd go ahead and try it. I've heard an account or two of surprisingly good results. But again, its true purpose in this field is as a solvent for oil, not for removing rust.

 

Oh, and of course do NOT get it on the nakago.