Japanese Sword Collection - Thomas Del Mar Ltd - 27Th June 2018

[Surfson]

Thanks Rayhan, that is very helpful!  So I guess a "senior UK collector" bought it out of Aoi about 5-6 years ago for 3.2M Yen.  

[Guest Rayhan]

Yes it seems so. I would be interested to see the condition now but I'm still quite wary of the low estimates vs what we know about previous purchase prices. Could be bait but need to see these in hand.

[Gakusee]

This auction contains lots predominantly from a large Dutch collection (actually the majority of the blades) and a UK collection (10-15 swords).

 

There are some interesting items, including the 75cm Masamitsu and some tantos. But one needs to look at the blades and their condition, the papers (and from which organisations they are and whether they agree ), the mei and how it has been transcribed in the auction (wink wink) , etc. My suggestion would be for people not to take our punts without in-hand study and sceptical review of the entire package.

[paulb]

Robert

As Michael says most of these are from a Dutch collection and I think the one you are referring to is one of them. Certainly I am not aware of it being part of the UK collection mentioned (then again I dont know every Juyo blade in the UK) 

There seems to be much speculation about the estimates. I have noticed increasingly in the UK that estimates in most areas seem on the low side and bear little relationship to the prices realised. The idea behind this is apparently to "tempt people in". I have never quite understood that idea but it seems popular.

We will see what the market thinks when they come up for sale.

good luck to those who bid I think from some of those I have seen in the past  there are some interesting pieces listed amongst these.

[Surfson]

Paul, are you going to the auction or at least to see the blades?  

[paulb]

Unfortunately not. I live about 350 miles away. I am sure other members of our society  will though so if there is something you particularly want a view on pm me and I will ask them to give us some feedback

[Gakusee]

Kageyori: severely polished down and almost nothing left of it both in terms of boshi and hamon. A pity but only a shadow of what a blade of that age (1290-1310s) could look like. Paperwork missing and not cheap at all to replace.

 

I spent a long time examining the “Masamitsu”:

- TKicho certificate and sayagaki both say “Masamitsu”

- however NTHK certificate says Iemori

- the nakago is significantly corroded after Bishu Osa and it is anyone’s guess what the mei was thereafter

 

Now as to workmanship: very obvious late Koto Bizen blade (also sort of the late 1370-1430s). Prominent itame hada with some hadadachi , well retained midare boshi, the nioiguchi is broad and nioi based [vs typical Masamitsu nioiguchi which is normally much tighter and more nie based]. The typical Masamitsu nie hataraki and tighter nioiguchi (ie the overall Soden features and skill frankly) were missing but there was fairly good midare notare with some choji and togari. Plenty of sunagashi and kinsuji. Plenty actually and that is a key blade attraction.

Overall to me this is much more the Kozori Iemori than Masamitsu (even though some of the features reminded of the Hatakeda Iemori) . But Iemori was one of the best Kozori smiths.

Overall, a veritable and long (75cm) Koto Bizen blade in a fairly decent polish (with some minor issues here and there in terms of some staining which can be sorted by a polisher probably quickly).

[Jussi Ekholm]

Thanks for your detailed analysis Michael, I'd trust your eyes over mine.

[Vermithrax16]

This thread reminds me of this:

[Stephen]

hang in there Chelmsford one day you too will be one of NMB elite 

[Vermithrax16]

Not likely.

[Surfson]

Kageyori went for 12,000 pounds at the hammer.  Just under $20,000 US dollars plus shipping.  Not bad for a well mounted juyo blade, although based on Michael's helpful comments it was tired. 

[Gakusee]

I was glad to see a lot of our ToKen members bought swords yesterday in the auction and actually brought them to the ToKen Society meeting last night. It made for an interesting and lively meeting with explanations of why different people went for what they bought.

The attractive thing about the Kageyori was the very fine and tight koitame jigane but it was overall severely polished down. I actually liked quite a bit the Tadayoshi tanto (rare blade form) owned now by a long-term member which is typical Hizento with very tight hamon and good konie.

I was glad to see new faces at our meeting last night and start onto new relationships.

[Guest Rayhan]

Fantastic meeting and great explanations of the swords sold during this auction including some beautiful koshirae. Was great to meet everyone!

[Gakusee]

The Japanese blades went for overall incredibly low prices. Hozon papered blades of c67-70cm were acquired for £1300-2000 hammer prices. Just the cost of import/export and papering is probably £300-400 including intermediary fee.

 

Various unpapered Koto and Shinto pieces went for £700-800 or thereabouts. A signed Hozon papered wak in koshirae (lot 54) - for £700 hammer.

 

 

I cannot believe the prices and interest (or lack thereof) even at those levels. It shows how hard it is at low/mid-level but this to me is rock-bottom.

 

Well, see for yourselves in the attachment. I would hate to see my swords dispersed like that in an auction at prices which bear little resemblance to acquisition prices or even market.

thomasdelmar june 18 results.pdfFetching info...

[Surfson]

The Sadakazu (lot 12) went cheap at 5K pounds and the nice mounts (lot 5) also went cheap, in my view.  

[Guest Rayhan]

Thomasdelmar-Spread Sheet.xlsxFetching info...

 

I hope this attachment works

 

Ray

[Brian]

Thanks Ray and Michael, very helpful. Can't help but noticing the sum of the entire auction is less than one big purchase in the art world of paintings or sculptures.
Yes..Nihonto really are undervalued.

[Bazza]

  On 7/1/2018 at 7:48 AM, Brian said:

...

Yes..Nihonto really are undervalued.

Just as well for the bottom feeders!!!

 

BaZZa.

[Surfson]

Sadly, aside from we nuts on this board, and people like us, the vast majority of the populous, either in the US, Europe or Asia, really aren't interested in swords!  

[Jussi Ekholm]

Sounds like pretty solid deals could have been had there. This is just so minor hobby and you need to have the right buyers at the right time. I'm glad to hear some Token GB members scored nice deals at the auction, and hopefully NMB members too.

[general_piffle]

Arrived to this thread too late. My bank balance can breathe a sigh of relief.

[dwmc]

  On 7/1/2018 at 12:10 PM, Surfson said:

Sadly, aside from we nuts on this board, and people like us, the vast majority of the populous, either in the US, Europe or Asia, really aren't interested in swords!  

 

As the days go by we (Nihonto enthusiast) must face the increasing inevitability we are alone, in a hostile, uninhabited, and meaningless universe. Yet, still we have to laugh...

[Surfson]

You made me laugh Dave!    

[YOJIMBO]

  On 7/1/2018 at 12:10 PM, Surfson said:

Sadly, aside from we nuts on this board, and people like us, the vast majority of the populous, either in the US, Europe or Asia, really aren't interested in swords!  

consent   

 

That's why the prices are down. Nobody cares about swrds.. In fact, if you buy a sword maybe cheap, it's not a great deal. Because there is no other buyer. Most collectors just want to change. Few pay.

[Surfson]

I don't want to turn a stray joke into a pity party guys.  I think that the prices of this sale, at least the ones I studied, were fair market value for the swords that went out.  The tired juyo with nice mounts (couldn't tell if they were plated or solid, but not a big worry) went for about $18-20K, the Gassan with horimono that needs a polish went for about $7-8K.  The gorgeous tantos with nice mounts went for about $7-12K.   If those buyers put them in an auction next year, they will bring about the same.  The fees are the cost of collecting when one buys retail.  All is good in the world.  Cheers, Bob